ihave a i year old panasonic vhs-c camcorder and want to start putting my videos on cdr.but im getting real confused on what hardware and software ill need.i've been tring to read all the related articles but seem to be making myself more confused.i do want the audio also so from what i understand i'll be wanting to convert to mpeg-4.right?
i wanted to try to keep this under 100$ for hardware(just bought canon a20) so i dont have many choices.i've been looking at pinnacle studio dc10plus and the dazzle digital video creator 80.anyone have any experience with these? or would i be better off spending alittle more money on something alittle better?
i have 2 machines i could set these up on so please tell me if they'll work ok.(i'd rather use my pentium system but if its to slow i will use other)
system 1 -------------- system 2
asus cusl2-c mb (815ep chipset)----------- epox 8kha+ mb (kt266a)
p3933 eb(133 buss) ----------- athlon xp1600
256 pc133 ------------ 512 case2 pc2400
hp 8200 burner ---------- plextor 12/10/32a
wd 5400 rpm 30 gig hd ---------- ibm 75gxp 45 gig hd
ati radeon 32ddr ---- ----- ati 8500le
cheap sound card but sb approved--------- sbl value
lan @ modem ------ lan & modem

I have not had any experience with either of the two capture devices you mention. I did read up on them and I think (but cannot be sure)that you would be better off with higher priced cards.

The dc10 captures in MJPEG which takes up tons of space and requires a fast HD to keep up with the tremendous data rate in the higher quality modes.

The VC80 captures in MPEG1 and is not capable of high quality captures. The vc80 would be fine for web streaming quality video but I think you will be disapointed in the quality for your use.

Think about going to an MPEG2 based capture device. MPEG2 has a lot more flexability and offers much better compression rates then MJPEG. If you can try before you buy.

Remember if you ain't Muslim you ain't Shiite.

thanks for the reply.is there any capture cards out that decodes directly to mpeg4?i think this is the standard in which i'll need to use.not sure though.
also does anyone no if theres an advantage to pentium or amd for doing this?

ok now im looking at 2 different products.
1.creative video blaster movie maker
2.dazzle digital video creator II
both do mpeg2 but the dazzle also does mpeg4/asf.is that the same as mpeg4 or is it different.also is it possible to convert from mpeg2 to mpeg4 or must it be done in the original encodeing?
im leaning toward the creative since its like a hundred dollars cheaper and is usb.i've read some of the pci devices can be real picky.
oh one(err two) more question please.i've been looking for a direct answer for this in all the articles but cant find.
1.whats the diff in image qaulity between mpeg2 and mpeg4.or wouldn't it really matter since its coming from a vhs-c format?
2.and finally whats the file size diff between those two formats as far as megabytes per video minute(with sound)?
sorry about all the questions but im haveing a hard time finding real answeres.

Mpeg2 and Mpeg4 are both capable of very high quality video. Mpeg2 is older and you can find products that use hardware to help encode to Mpeg2. Mpeg4 is newer and hardware has not been available to code directly to Mpeg4. Mpeg2 is the format dvds are recorded in. Mpeg2 offers very good quality and ok compression rates.

I have an ATI AIW Radeon on a 1.3GHz system and with some extra software you can (kinda) record directly to Mpeg4. The problem is that between the Mpeg4 stream and the audio conversion the system is not fast enough to do the encoding in real time at any reasonable quality frame rate and image size. In other words you can't code directly to Mpeg4 yet. The Dazzle capture system may include Mpeg4 hardware but I'm betting it don't. I think it is an Mpeg2 <b>harware</b> based system that includes mpeg4 conversion <b>software</b>.

BTW what processor are you planning to use?? This is from the Dazzle site:

" Dazzle Digital Video Creator II--PCI Version $299.99 DM-7000 The premier MPEG-1 & 2 digital video adapter for creating DVD-quality video on your PC. Add streaming RealVideo and RealAudio to your websites!
<b>(Note: Currently Athlon K7 processors do not support this product.)</b>"

Mpeg4 offers near dvd quality at much higher compression then Mpeg2. An hour of video captured with my AIW in Mpeg2 format takes up about 4GB. This is too much room as I do not have a dvd burner. I convert from Mpeg2 to Mpeg4 and the file will fit on one cdr with very little quality loss. The quality of the finished video depends on many variables most importantly compression rate. I find that for videos up to about 2 hours mpeg4 compression to a single 700MB cdr produces acceptable quality. Longer videos require 2 700MB cdrs for acceptable quality. Note: Some of the space savings comes from the conversion from Mpeg2 to Mpeg4 and some of the savings comes from converting 6 channel 5.1 AC3 sound to 2 channel MP3 sound.

I can show you how to do all this stuff when you are ready. See <A HREF="http://www.doom9.org" target="_new">http://www.doom9.org</A> and <A HREF="http://www.divx-digest.com" target="_new">http://www.divx-digest.com</A> for more info :-)




Remember if you ain't Muslim you ain't Shiite.<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by lakedude on 12/29/01 06:40 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

thanks for the help.so i guess what i need to do is find something that decodes to mpeg2 then later convert that to mpeg4.
i think i have it narrowed down to now to the dazzle digital video creator II or the creative video movie maker.so its now a question of usb or pci.the creative is alot cheaper and usb but from what i understand the dazzle might be a more complete solution.
i would like to use my p3 933eb system but if speed is a top priority then i'd give my xp1600 a try.
thanx again for your help. :< )

Just one quick note. Mpeg 4 will play fine on your computer, but if you want to take your CD over to a friends house and play it on his DVD player, it won't work. DVD players can read mpeg 2 and (usually) Mpeg 1 (aka VCD) only.

Of course mpeg 2 is too large to fit more than a few tens of minutes onto a CD, and mpeg 1 doesn't play back very good quality at all.

As for converting from mpeg2 to mpeg4, on the athlon system you have it'll take about 20 min for every 10 min of video you're converting (this is a very rough estimate) using the latest codecs. On your Pentium system it'll take at least double that.

--------------
Knowan likes you. Knowan is your friend. Knowan thinks you're great.

thanx for the info. :< )
right now i just want to convert for storing(cheaper than buying those dam 20 min tapes everytime) and some sharing on other computers.as far as sharing on dvd players i guess ill just have to wait till the dvd burners come down in price and figure out what format there going to use.

1 silly question.is mpeg4 a dvd format? everytime i hear it mentioned it always is refering to dvd's.

DVDs are recorded using MPEG<b>2</b> format. Mpeg4 is used to save space so near dvd quality can be recorded to cdr or streamed over the net. It is kinda like using winzip except that you do loose a little going to mpeg4. The reason you are hearing Mpeg4 and dvd together is because a dvd is the best quality source to start with. You could take a VHS tape to mpeg4 but if a dvd is available why start with such a low quality source? Mpeg4 is generally capable of better quality then VHS.

Remember if you ain't Muslim you ain't Shiite.

If you need a great video/audio capture card, concider the Videum 1000 from Winnov. I't is my choice.

More info at www.winnov.com

Regards
Stisse

Please let us know which card you decide on and if you like it. I know a bit about the cards from reading but it is all theroy. I would like to know how theory translates in practice.

Remember if you ain't Muslim you ain't Shiite.

well i think i have it narrowed down to the dazzle video creator 80"usb" and the dazzle digital video creator 2"pci".
i really wish i could find someone with experience in these cards.i went to a local best buy who carries both and asked some questions but knowone knew anything.
from the specs i can only see acouple major diffs.
1. usb vs. pci
2.creator 2 supports more formats.
3.price
4.software
heres my take on it.
1.pci faster,but i doubt the conversion time will take the full speed increase
2.i only need mpeg2 hardware,then i'll switch to mpeg4 via software
3.80$ vs 300$ no qeustion who wins that one
4.i dont want to spend days produceing a movie i just want a simple program to convert. winner creator 80

another thing i cant get a answer for is if these do the audio at the same time or thats put in later.

May I trow some words in,

In any case, unless you have a capture card with professional grade (minimum is the Dazzle DVC II pci) then the original capturing quality if captured directly to Mpg2 let alone Mpg4/DviX will not be very good.
saying that, Look for a card that can capture in Full quality (720X480/576) and then encode in software. It takes longer but quality will be far better.
Stay away from USB connected devices as the quality can never be maximal.

Mpg4/Dvix is nice but I will go with Mpg2 or Mpg1.
Main reasons is that you (if done correct) can watch your material on a normal TV from a DVD.

If you will look into the 300$+ then you can get a used Pinnacle DV500+. New one at the 450+ range. This cards will also give you real time editing options.

I agree with ScubDude on the hardware. If you cheap out you will be disapointed.

I do not disagree on format as ScubDude has good reasons for saving to MPEG 1 or 2 but you may have other needs. My computer is the center of an entertainment system and is hooked up to the tv and stereo. For me MPEG 4 is a better choice due to high quality, flexability and small file size. MPEG 4 is NOT portable to standalone so it is NOT a choice (as Scub said) if you need to play it in a standalone dvd player.

Remember if you ain't Muslim you ain't Shiite.

Perhaps you might look at your items in a different way.

1.) USB 1.2Mbs vs. PCI 33MByte/s peak performance.
It's clear that the bandwidth available on USB is NOT sufficient for fullscreen broadcast quality PAL or NTSC real-time recording. My esitmates is that the best you can achieve on USB is about single field quarter PAL (approximimatly 352x288 PAL which needs about 2Mbs bandwith)

2) I'm unfamiliar with "creator 2" but the only things of importance is MPEG1 or MPEG2 and realtime recording. And even in between you can ALWAYS convert to another format. I expect both devices can record in MPEG1 at least. The USB has lower bandwidth so I doubt that it'll achieve MPEG2...

3). Price? Have you considered ALL the facts? Do you need/require additional software/hardware to achieve the type of videorecording you desire?

4) Software? I expect that most video-editing software know at least cut-frame editing and if it has a simple fade-in/out then that's strictly speaking all you need :-)

As for the conversion time. Indeed usb or PCI is not relavant here since conversion is done in software AFTER initial recording to HD. In this respect a faster cpu is more important. But again USB devices have limited bandwidth available for use and that limmits the size and framerate of your recordings. This USB restricted bandwidth is also important for other USB-devices like CDRW, HD's etc... E.g. you'll