Archived from groups: alt.cellular.gsm.carriers.voicestream,alt.cellular.gsm (More info?)

I'm waiting for the following device to reach the GSM market -
 
PDA with integrated phone, data (subscription-based IP mainly, and Wi-Fi  
would also be nice) and GPS.
 
Thus, I could need directions for somewhere and simply start my GPS app  
and get going.   If I need to talk to someone along the way, activate the  
phone.
 
If I want to log into another computer or visit a web site, I've got  
Internet access.
 
The Garmin PDAs almost meet these desires, but I've yet to see phone  
integration.   Palm Treos are also close, but they don't have built-in  
GPS.
 
I'd looking at GSM because I'm a Verizon customer on the family share plan  
and VZW's prices are just too high to fully justify usage.
 
Thanks for any insights.
 
Scott

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.gsm.carriers.voicestream,alt.cellular.gsm (More info?)

Scott Ehrlich wrote:
> I'm waiting for the following device to reach the GSM market -
>
> PDA with integrated phone, data (subscription-based IP mainly, and Wi-Fi
> would also be nice) and GPS.
 
Huh? Buy a Pocket PC phone, get add-on GPS, done. That was easy

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.gsm.carriers.voicestream,alt.cellular.gsm (More info?)

Scott Ehrlich wrote:
> I'm waiting for the following device to reach the GSM market -
>  
> PDA with integrated phone, data (subscription-based IP mainly, and Wi-Fi  
> would also be nice) and GPS.
>  
> Thus, I could need directions for somewhere and simply start my GPS app  
> and get going.   If I need to talk to someone along the way, activate the  
> phone.
>  
> If I want to log into another computer or visit a web site, I've got  
> Internet access.
>  
> The Garmin PDAs almost meet these desires, but I've yet to see phone  
> integration.   Palm Treos are also close, but they don't have built-in  
> GPS.
>  
> I'd looking at GSM because I'm a Verizon customer on the family share plan  
> and VZW's prices are just too high to fully justify usage.
>  
> Thanks for any insights.
>  
> Scott
 
 
The following article appeared in a local paper today...
 
 
 
Converging signals
 
Phones that can use both Wi-Fi, cellular networks on horizon
 
06:02 AM CDT on Saturday, April 9, 2005
 
By TERRY MAXON / The Dallas Morning News
 
What if your cordless phone at home turned into your cellphone when you  
left the house?
 
Or, to turn the question around: What if you could use your cellphone at  
home without burning up your cellular plan minutes?
 
Those are very real possibilities in the not-too-distant future as the  
industry prepares to put out dual-purpose phones that can use both a  
cellular company's network and the high-speed wireless, or Wi-Fi,  
networks now used to link computers to the Internet.
 
A major driver for the convergence of cellphones and traditional phones,  
experts say, is the poor cellular reception inside many businesses and  
homes. The reception problem could be remedied if cellphones could use  
an in-building Wi-Fi network.
 
"I think it's going to be big," said Doug Rasor, vice president and  
manager of worldwide strategic marketing at Texas Instruments Inc.
 
Already, a few hybrid phones are on the market. They work as wireless  
phones that link up through a home's Wi-Fi network, then operate as  
cellular phones when the device gets too far from the Wi-Fi signal.
 
Senza Fili Consulting, which is based in Sammamish, Wash., estimates  
that the market for converged Wi-Fi and cellular services will reach  
$1.6 billion in the United States by 2010, with more than 26 million  
subscribers.
 
"This is a market that's really just getting started," said Frank  
Hanzlik, managing director of the Wi-Fi Alliance, an Austin-based group  
that watches over the Wi-Fi standard.
 
At last month's gathering of the wireless industry in New Orleans, the  
Wi-Fi Alliance displayed a handful of phones and personal digital  
assistants that had the capability of being both Wi-Fi and cellular.
 
"We're seeing the first generation of phones on display here at this  
event," Mr. Hanzlik said then. "I think people are going to have a lot  
of exciting products in the future."
 
One of the first questions is whether the natural customers for hybrid  
phones are businesses or consumers. That's a question that brings some  
disagreement.
 
Home customers
 
Senza Fili president Monica Paolini said many cellphone users in the  
United States can't get a good signal in their homes. She sees consumers  
as the logical first users of hybrid service in this country, as a way  
to improve call quality inside homes.
 
"On one side, there is all this enterprise [business] market, and I  
think that one is going to be big as well," Ms. Paolini said. "But in  
the most immediate future, Wi-Fi and cellular convergence is attractive  
to cellular operators because it is a way for them to increase  
residential coverage at relatively low cost."
 
But that will happen only "if – and that's a big if – you have handsets  
at a reasonable price," she said.
 
With price tags of $800 to $1,000, not many consumers will want to buy a  
hybrid phone. Ms. Paolini said the phones also need to have acceptable  
battery life and look good.
 
"If you want to get into the residential market, you need to have  
phones, and not just the high-range phones but also the mid-range phones  
that people can use," she said.
 
Business users
 
Mr. Rasor of Texas Instruments said he thinks business customers will  
embrace the hybrid phones first because of poor reception inside their  
buildings. Mr. Rasor said that at TI's main building, users lose their  
cellphone signal 20 to 30 feet inside the building.
 
The desire to have phones that work as well inside offices as they do  
outside should make the devices attractive to businesses, he said.
 
Deloitte & Touche consultant Naresh K. Lakhanpal agreed that businesses  
will pick up on the technology first.
 
"I think you'll see the dual-purpose phones coming. Then you'll see some  
work their way into enterprise, the corporations," said Mr. Lakhanpal,  
global practices director for Deloitte's technology, media &  
telecommunications group.
 
"Then you're going to see people start to say, 'OK, this technology  
makes sense to me. I'm willing to embrace it, and I'm going to start  
bringing this into my home,' " he said. "That's when I think it'll start  
taking off with seamless handoff."
 
Seamless transfers
 
"Seamless handoff" refers to the ability of a Wi-Fi network and a  
cellular network to transfer calls back and forth without cutting off  
the caller.
 
Proponents like Mr. Hanzlik see a world where that seamless transfer  
happens routinely.
 
For example, a person could start a phone call at home through his  
network there; keep talking on the drive to Starbucks; switch to  
Starbucks' Wi-Fi hotspot as he orders a coffee; hop back onto the  
cellular network as he drives to work; and move onto his company's Wi-Fi  
network as he enters his office building.
 
But Mr. Hanzlik said the growth of hybrid technology doesn't depend on  
the ability to have easy transfers between networks. Even today,  
consumers have to put up with cellular calls abruptly ending, as he does  
when he drives through Austin's hills.
 
"The seamless handoff is a good thing, and we'll get there," he said.  
"But it's not necessarily a requirement to get started."
 
Consultant Jeff Pulver said he had some doubts about how soon he would  
see the technology that would transfer such calls.
 
But at a trade show that Mr. Pulver's company, Pulver.com, sponsored  
last month in San Jose, BridgePort Networks demonstrated a system that  
flawlessly let phone calls jump back and forth.
 
"I can now tell you the technology actually works," Mr. Pulver said.  
"But the bigger question to me is, who actually are the customers for this?"
 
Companies may see hybrid phones as a better way to take control of their  
employees' phone bills. Or cellular companies may see it as a way to  
spread their reach, he said.
 
Mr. Pulver said the business case for hybrid phones is still uncertain.  
"Is this really just a technology play with a little bitty hype, or is  
there some real grounded business behind it?"
 
 
--  
jer
email reply - I am not a 'ten'

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.gsm.carriers.voicestream,alt.cellular.gsm (More info?)

He said he wanted a dream PDA not a nightmare (Pocket PC).
 
;-)
ek
"René" <kar98@the-coalition.us> wrote in message  
news:xeR5e.430$gI3.101@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
> Scott Ehrlich wrote:
>> I'm waiting for the following device to reach the GSM market -
>>
>> PDA with integrated phone, data (subscription-based IP mainly, and Wi-Fi
>> would also be nice) and GPS.
>
> Huh? Buy a Pocket PC phone, get add-on GPS, done. That was easy
>

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.gsm.carriers.voicestream,alt.cellular.gsm (More info?)

I've owned a Pocket-PC PDA (Dell Axim X30) for 5 months now
and have few complaints. The dual WiFi/Bluetooth is very nice.
 
--  
John Richards
 
 
"Cromagnum Man" <enkegley@nospam.verizon.net> wrote in message newsK96e.6970$Zn3.3830@trnddc02...
> He said he wanted a dream PDA not a nightmare (Pocket PC).

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.gsm.carriers.voicestream,alt.cellular.gsm (More info?)

"John Richards" <jr70@blackhole.invalid> wrote:
> I've owned a Pocket-PC PDA (Dell Axim X30) for 5 months now
> and have few complaints. The dual WiFi/Bluetooth is very nice.
 
But that's not a cell phone, too, is it?
 
Rudy

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.gsm.carriers.voicestream,alt.cellular.gsm (More info?)

R. P. wrote:
> "John Richards" <jr70@blackhole.invalid> wrote:
>> I've owned a Pocket-PC PDA (Dell Axim X30) for 5 months now
>> and have few complaints. The dual WiFi/Bluetooth is very nice.
>
> But that's not a cell phone, too, is it?
 
No, but "Cromagnum" alleged that PocketPCs in general are, in his opinion,  
a nightmare. Which they aren't :-)

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.gsm (More info?)

The HP iPAQ 6340 is a GSM/WiFi/Bluetooth PDA which does a fair job. Have had
one for 6 months or so. Definitely a bit behind on the phone functionality
(poor sound quality, poor keyboard lock), but in general a tolerable
compromise. Odd to talk/listen to half a sandwich, though
A bit slow on WWW browsing too.
If you just need a phone _or_ a PDA, look elsewhere. If you need a
not-too-sharp swiss-army-knife, it's a good bet
 
/Per
 
(crossposting is bad style, y'know...)
 
 
"R. P." <r_pol12gar@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:arGdnWMf1-SuN8TfRVn-vw@comcast.com...
> "John Richards" <jr70@blackhole.invalid> wrote:
> > I've owned a Pocket-PC PDA (Dell Axim X30) for 5 months now
> > and have few complaints. The dual WiFi/Bluetooth is very nice.
>
> But that's not a cell phone, too, is it?
>
> Rudy

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.gsm (More info?)

"Per Laursen" <per.laursen@maNOSPAMil.dk> wrote:
> The HP iPAQ 6340 is a GSM/WiFi/Bluetooth PDA which does a fair job.  
> Have had
> one for 6 months or so. Definitely a bit behind on the phone  
> functionality
> (poor sound quality, poor keyboard lock), but in general a tolerable
> compromise. Odd to talk/listen to half a sandwich, though
> A bit slow on WWW browsing too.
> If you just need a phone _or_ a PDA, look elsewhere. If you need a
> not-too-sharp swiss-army-knife, it's a good bet
 
Yes, that's the functionality I've been looking for, but I think I'll  
wait for the next version when hopefully they get everything just right.  
;-)
 
Rudy

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.gsm.carriers.voicestream,alt.cellular.gsm (More info?)

The problem with all this 'convergence' is 'handoff' - switching,
seamlessly, between cell to wifi and back etc. Phone calls are routed
as 'circuits' (even if virtually) so changing the underlying physical
connection breaks the circuit - unless handoff is possible. Data is a
piece of cake since it all runs over IP which is nicely layered above
these messy physical considerations and sends and receives packets. A
new handoff protocol will require major changes to cell infrastructure
and wifi access points. A ?simpler? way to handle it would be to use
VoIP over both cell and wifi and let the device toggle based on
appropriate cost/power algorithms.
 
Whoo Hoo