Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

I'm shopping for my first laptop and I've got a few questions.  If any of
you can answer any of these I would appreciate it.  I'm not looking for a
gaming machine, but a desktop replacement machine that might do a little
video editing and various multimedia tasks.  Ok, I see that Dell Small
Business has a low end 8600 for $949 and I've been looking at HP/Compaq
zv5000z/r3000z configured right around that price.  The HP/Compaq looks
stellar on paper (I'm opting for the 64 bit processor and lots of bells and
whistles) in comparison to the low end 8600, but I'm not really impressed
with the feel of the HP/Compaqs that I've looked at in stores.  I take it
that the 8600 is a higher level of laptop - build wise, as far as durability
and such.  Is this true?
 
If I get the Dell with entry level wireless (.b) is there going to be a mini
PCI slot to upgrade in the future?  Does the Dell DVD-ROM read DVD+RW?  Are
there aftermarket 7,200 rpm drives that fit the Dell?  What all can go into
the modular bay (extra battery, floppy, anything else)?  I hear that the XGA
screen
on the Dell isn't all that great?
 
Am I going to be sorry that I didn't go with 64bit?  I'm a bit disappointed
that I hear the video card for the HP/Compaq's doesn't support Direct X9 and
that will be a requirement for full Longhorn Aero Glass (but that's not
really a deal breaker if true).
 
Specs - (the HP has already dropped the free hard drive upgrade offer, so
I've gotta make this decision pretty quick) :
Compaq Presario R3000Z series customize notebook
- Microsoft(R) Windows(R) XP Home Edition
- AMD Athlon(TM) 64 3000+ 1.80 GHz
- 15.4" WXGA Widescreen (1280x800)
- 64MB NVIDIA(R) GeForce(TM) 4 440 Go +1394 & 5-in-1
- 256MB DDR SDRAM (1x256MB)
- FREE Upgrade from 40GB to 60GB 4200 RPM Hard Drive
- DVD/CDRW Combo Drive
- FREE Upgrade to 54g(TM) Broadcom 802.11b/g WLAN !!
- Microsoft(R) Works/Money
- 12 Cell Lithium Ion Battery
- hpshopping in-box envelope
 
+ $1 Backpack
 
 
 
HP Pavilion zv5000z series customize notebook
- Microsoft(R) Windows(R) XP Home Edition
- AMD Athlon(TM) 64 3000+ 1.80 GHz
- 15.4" WXGA Widescreen (1280x800)
- 64MB NVIDIA(R) GeForce(TM) 4 440 Go +1394 & 5-in-1
- 256MB DDR SDRAM (1x256MB)
- 30 GB 4200 RPM Hard Drive
- FREE Upgrade from 8X DVD to DVD/CD-RW Combo Drive
- 54g(TM) 802.11b/g WLAN w/ 125HSM/SpeedBooster(TM)
- Microsoft(R) Works/Money
- 12 Cell Lithium Ion Battery
- hpshopping in-box envelope
 
 
 
Inspiron 8600
 
Intel® Pentium® M Processor 715(1.50A GHz/400MHz FSB) 15.4 WXGA
 
Operating System
 
Microsoft® Windows® XP Home
 
Memory
 
256MB DDR SDRAM 1 Dimm
 
Video Card
 
32MB DDR NVIDIA®GeForceT FX Go5200 AGP 4X Graphics
 
Hard Drive
 
30GB Hard Drive
 
Power Adapter
 
AC adapter - 65w, 19.5v
 
Floppy Drive and Additional Storage Devices
 
No Floppy
 
Network Card
 
Integrated 10/100 Network Card and Modem
 
CD ROM/DVD ROM
 
8X Max DVD ROM
 
Wireless Networking Cards
 
Intel® PRO/Wireless 2100 Internal Wireless (802.11b, 11Mbps)
 
Bundled Software
 
Productivity Pack including WordPerfect®
 
Security Software
 
McAfee Security Center w/ VirusScan, Firewall and Privacy, 90-day trial
 
Digital Music
 
Dell Jukebox - easy-to-use music player and CD burning software
 
Primary Battery
 
72 WHr Primary Battery
 
Limited Warranty, Services and Support Options
 
1 Year Basic Mail-In Plan (No Rebate offered with this Plan)
 
Installation Services
 
No Installation
 
Dial-Up Internet Access
 
6 Months of America Online Membership Included
 
Digital Imaging or Digital Photography
 
Paint ShopT Pro® Trial plus Photo AlbumT Starter Edition
 
Mail- In Rebate
 
None
 
Dell Media Experience
 
Dell Media ExperienceT
 
Purchase Intent
 
Purchase is not intended for resale.
 
Free printer or Palm Zire
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
--  
A sickened mind and spirit
The mirror tells me lies
Could I mistake myself for someone
Who lives behind my eyes
Will he escape my soul
Or will he live in me
Is he tryin' to get out or tryin' to enter me
 
THX 1138

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

fastfwd wrote:
 
> I'm shopping for my first laptop and I've got a few questions.  If
> any of you can answer any of these I would appreciate it.  I'm not
> looking for a gaming machine, but a desktop replacement machine that
> might do a little video editing and various multimedia tasks.  Ok, I
> see that Dell Small Business has a low end 8600 for $949 and I've
> been looking at HP/Compaq zv5000z/r3000z configured right around that
> price.  The HP/Compaq looks stellar on paper (I'm opting for the 64
> bit processor and lots of bells and whistles) in comparison to the
> low end 8600, but I'm not really impressed with the feel of the
> HP/Compaqs that I've looked at in stores.  I take it that the 8600 is
> a higher level of laptop - build wise, as far as durability and such.
> Is this true?
 
Usually, no. I donÄt know the zv5000z/r3000z but all the HP notebooks Ive  
seen and used have a much higher build quality than the Dell Inspiron 8600.
 
> If I get the Dell with entry level wireless (.b) is there going to be
> a mini PCI slot to upgrade in the future?
 
Yes. You can exchange the card for something faster. There are lots of  
MiniPCI cards around on ebay.
 
> Does the Dell DVD-ROM read
> DVD+RW?
 
Well, today You shouldn't find any DVD-ROM that doesn't.
 
> Are there aftermarket 7,200 rpm drives that fit the Dell?
 
Sure. These are generic 2.5" IDE drives.
 
> What all can go into the modular bay (extra battery, floppy, anything
> else)?  I hear that the XGA screen
> on the Dell isn't all that great?
 
Well, the WXGA screen isn't bad but it's of average display quality. The HP  
nx7010 I bought a few days ago for 959EUR (~900USD) has a much better  
display.
 
> Am I going to be sorry that I didn't go with 64bit?
 
Certainly not. 64Bit is not faster, it's only real advantage is that You can  
address more than 4GB with it. Hardly a limit in a notebook for the next  
years.
 
> I'm a bit
> disappointed that I hear the video card for the HP/Compaq's doesn't
> support Direct X9 and that will be a requirement for full Longhorn
> Aero Glass (but that's not really a deal breaker if true).
 
Well, Longhorn is far far away (AFAIR announced for 1006), and no-one can  
say what it will require or what not. Everything You hear today is plain  
speculation, nothing else.
 
Besides this, just because a gfx chip doesn't support Dx9 features doesn't  
mean it can't run with Dx9. So I wouldn't give too much to this. Full Dx9  
support is mostly important for current games, but both chips aren't fast  
enough for them, either.
 
BTW: The Dell has a Pentium-M which means its battery will last much longer  
than the one of the Compaqs. But the Compaqs probably are faster...
 
Benjamin

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

> > Are there aftermarket 7,200 rpm drives that fit the Dell?
>
> Sure. These are generic 2.5" IDE drives.
>
Actually, my Dell 600m, which is the "little brother" to the 8600 came with
a 40MB, 4200 rpm drive. I have swapped in larger 2.5" drives to several
other laptops, so I bought a 80 mb 7200 rpm drive, but I could not get it to
work in the Dell properly--it kept having errors. I returned the drive and
added a 80 mb 5400 rpm drive with no problems.  I was never sure whether it
was a bad drive or something in the bios or voltage requirements of the
Dell.  They do not list 7200 rpm drives as replacements for the 600m on
their web site.

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

> > I'm a bit
> > disappointed that I hear the video card for the HP/Compaq's doesn't
> > support Direct X9 and that will be a requirement for full Longhorn
> > Aero Glass (but that's not really a deal breaker if true).
>
> Well, Longhorn is far far away (AFAIR announced for 1006), and no-one can
> say what it will require or what not. Everything You hear today is plain
> speculation, nothing else.
>
> Besides this, just because a gfx chip doesn't support Dx9 features doesn't
> mean it can't run with Dx9. So I wouldn't give too much to this. Full Dx9
> support is mostly important for current games, but both chips aren't fast
> enough for them, either.
>
> BTW: The Dell has a Pentium-M which means its battery will last much
longer
> than the one of the Compaqs. But the Compaqs probably are faster...
>
> Benjamin
 
 
I appreciate your comments.  While the Longhorn requirements are a minor
consideration - I have come to realize that it may be possible that a future
64bit version of Adobe Premiere (my preference) may require DirectX 9 to
function ( I see a few current video editors do require it).  From what I
have read - and granted I take these comments to be from gamers - the video
card in these HP/Compaq's are completely incompatible with DirectX 9.  I've
read a few posts so far that indicate they cease to function when it's
installed and it's not just a lack of full support.  I can't be totally sure
about that though.  I have found these comments posted by a
alt.comp.hardware.amd.x86-64 poster:
http://forums.amd.com/index.php?showtopic=18112
http://forums.amd.com/index.php?showtopic=19922
 
It's nearly a joke (at least to gamers) to go out and purchase one of these
HP/Compaq's with a nice 64bit processor and have it anchored to DirectX 8.
 
That being said.  I appreciate your input on the build quality.  That's
something that I just can't evaluate with the Dell and it's been pure
assumption on my part.  This makes the decision more difficult.  I'll have
to attempt to evaluate the actual performance between the two
configurations.  I've always been an AMD guy, but I have been interested in
trying out an Intel.
 
--  
A sickened mind and spirit
The mirror tells me lies
Could I mistake myself for someone
Who lives behind my eyes
Will he escape my soul
Or will he live in me
Is he tryin' to get out or tryin' to enter me
 
THX 1138

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

fastfwd wrote:
 
> I appreciate your comments.  While the Longhorn requirements are a
> minor consideration - I have come to realize that it may be possible
> that a future 64bit version of Adobe Premiere (my preference) may
> require DirectX 9 to function ( I see a few current video editors do
> require it).
 
You have to differ between DirectX 9 and a gfx card that supports special  
DirectX 9 features. For example, the Radeon Mobility 7500 in my IBM Thinkpad  
A31 is a DirectX7-generation chip, but I have DirectX 9 installed and all  
programs that require DirectX9 and don't require the few special DirectX9  
features work flawlessly. Games like Deus Ex II and FarCry require several  
functions that my Radeon 7500 doesn't support, so they don't run on it. But  
these Games with DirectX9 supprt also run fine on a Radeon 9200 or a  
GF4Ti4200 which both are DirectX8.1 cards. Doom does the same.
 
> From what I have read - and granted I take these
> comments to be from gamers - the video card in these HP/Compaq's are
> completely incompatible with DirectX 9.
 
That's wrong. They are _not_ incompatible with DirectX9. The GF4MX simply  
doesn't support some of the new DirectX9 features, that's all.
 
> I've read a few posts so far
> that indicate they cease to function when it's installed and it's not
> just a lack of full support.  I can't be totally sure about that
> though.  I have found these comments posted by a
> alt.comp.hardware.amd.x86-64 poster:
> http://forums.amd.com/index.php?showtopic=18112
 
Well, what this "i4ever" posted is simply wrong. FarCry and Unreal run on  
the GF4 go 440, of course they are slow. But the FX5200 isn't really faster,  
even this chip is too slow for gaming...
 
I understand that they are moaning about the old GF4go and that they  
expected an Radeon Mobility 9700 or 9800 or better, but not everyone wants  
to use the system for gaming, and for all other tasks (icl. Premiere) it  
will be more than good enough.
 
> It's nearly a joke (at least to gamers) to go out and purchase one of
> these HP/Compaq's with a nice 64bit processor and have it anchored to
> DirectX 8.
 
Well, no. It depends on what You do. You won't have problems with "real"  
applications that require DirectX, and for gaming both GPUs are too slow.
 
Benjamin

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

I appreciate the help.  I'm not a gamer and actually pretty unfamiliar with
the ramifications of DirectX compadibility (my desktop computer is a 650
Duron with a ATI All In Wonder 32 meg from like '99 - which hasn't 'ceased
to function' with any DirectX upgrades over the years).  I'm not a gamer.
Either machine will scream in comparison.  I've been a bit confused by all
the 'gamer' talk.  You've encouraged me to investigate further if there will
be any issues for my use.
 
--  
A sickened mind and spirit
The mirror tells me lies
Could I mistake myself for someone
Who lives behind my eyes
Will he escape my soul
Or will he live in me
Is he tryin' to get out or tryin' to enter me
 
THX 1138

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

fastfwd wrote:
 
> I appreciate the help.  I'm not a gamer and actually pretty
> unfamiliar with the ramifications of DirectX compadibility (my
> desktop computer is a 650 Duron with a ATI All In Wonder 32 meg from
> like '99 - which hasn't 'ceased to function' with any DirectX
> upgrades over the years).  I'm not a gamer. Either machine will
> scream in comparison.  I've been a bit confused by all the 'gamer'
> talk.  You've encouraged me to investigate further if there will be
> any issues for my use.
 
Well, You said You worry about Adobe Premiere. But Adobe for sure won't make  
the error to require their customers that even today work with gfx cards  
like Matrox G450 to buy the latest 3D card just for a 2D application like  
Premiere...
 
Games are different (but even there You'll find a lot of overhyped  
conversations what a game requires and what not), but since You don't want  
to game You shouldn't be worried at all.
 
Benjamin