Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

I realize that there are luggable computers of various ilks, but all of
them I've seen are outrageous in cost. I'm thinking of something that
would be no more expensive than a laptop/notebook, which of course is
going to be more expensive than a desktop of similar power. I'm
wondering whether anything exists that could be taken to class and used
on your typical school desk, but which won't be a dispos-o-PC in two
years (or less)? I can imagine why laptop and notebook manufacturers
aren't much interested in upgradeability (they'd rather sell us all
replacement laptops and notebooks every two years or less), but doesn't
SOMEBODY make a reasonably priced luggable case that would fit the
bill? I've found one source of luggable case
(http://www.lunchboxcomputers.com/), but the cases themselves are as
expensive as a laptop, and they would hardly be usable in even a
slightly confined space.

Please -- I have specific reasons for asking these particular
questions. Your opinions about how you would do it if you were me are
appreciated, but are not helpful. (Responses in other newsgroups have
led me to note that some people would rather preach a sermon than spill
a URL.)

TIA

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 13:15:24 -0400, Sporkman
<sporkedUNDERLINEagainMUNGE@bigfootDOT.com> wrote:
> I can imagine why laptop and notebook manufacturers
>aren't much interested in upgradeability (they'd rather sell us all
>replacement laptops and notebooks every two years or less), but doesn't
>SOMEBODY make a reasonably priced luggable case that would fit the
>bill?

As far as I know, nobody does this affordably. There doesn't seem
to be a large market for it anywhere.
Emanuel

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

E Brown wrote:
> As far as I know, nobody does this affordably. There doesn't seem
> to be a large market for it anywhere.
> Emanuel

That's an interesting comment, Emanuel. Really! I wouldn't disagree
with you but I'd like to ask you your opinion of WHY there isn't a large
market (if their isn't). Certainly there are more and more young people
who aren't afraid to replace a CPU or a motherboard, and who will build
their own systems if it happens to make economic sense to do so.
Certainly also there are a lot of workers who need to take their work
home but who don't need to work while on an airplane, in a car or on a
bus. Seems to me that their management and their IT people should be
happy to have a luggable case that they can basically put a desktop
system in and be able to upgrade from time to time. Save them the cost
of a new laptop evey couple of years, allow the employees to work on
powerful systems without having to burn CDs and/or use FTP or logon to
office systems from home, keep the companies from having to spend a lot
of money up front . . .

D'ya think the reason such a thing doesn't exist is because laptop
manufacturers just want to sell entire laptops (much bigger profit)? Or
is it because of technical limitations in making such a thing compact
enough? Or just because it just doesn't make economic sense? All of
the above?

TIA

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

Sporkman wrote:
>
> E Brown wrote:
> > As far as I know, nobody does this affordably. There doesn't seem
> > to be a large market for it anywhere.
> > Emanuel
>
> That's an interesting comment, Emanuel. Really! I wouldn't disagree
> with you but I'd like to ask you your opinion of WHY there isn't a large
> market (if their isn't). Certainly there are more and more young people
> who aren't afraid to replace a CPU or a motherboard, and who will build
> their own systems if it happens to make economic sense to do so.
> Certainly also there are a lot of workers who need to take their work
> home but who don't need to work while on an airplane, in a car or on a
> bus. Seems to me that their management and their IT people should be
> happy to have a luggable case that they can basically put a desktop
> system in and be able to upgrade from time to time. Save them the cost
> of a new laptop evey couple of years, allow the employees to work on
> powerful systems without having to burn CDs and/or use FTP or logon to
> office systems from home, keep the companies from having to spend a lot
> of money up front . . .
>
> D'ya think the reason such a thing doesn't exist is because laptop
> manufacturers just want to sell entire laptops (much bigger profit)? Or
> is it because of technical limitations in making such a thing compact
> enough? Or just because it just doesn't make economic sense? All of
> the above?

I seem to remember products similar to what you're asking for, some
years back. Basically a "luggable" case that would take a standard form
factor motherboard, often with a built in monitor of some sort. I
didn't pay close attention at the time and so cannot recall further
details.

My guess would be that the number of people who need luggability, but
not the portability of a laptop, AND who are willing to build their own
system, is too small to sustain affordable products. If enough people
wanted to buy it, someone would probably make it.

Lisa

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

Lisa Horton wrote:
> I seem to remember products similar to what you're asking for, some
> years back. Basically a "luggable" case that would take a standard form
> factor motherboard, often with a built in monitor of some sort. I
> didn't pay close attention at the time and so cannot recall further
> details.
>
> My guess would be that the number of people who need luggability, but
> not the portability of a laptop, AND who are willing to build their own
> system, is too small to sustain affordable products. If enough people
> wanted to buy it, someone would probably make it.
>
> Lisa

Your guess may be good, Lisa Horton, and I thank you sincerely for the
feedback.

Answer me this, though -- do you think companies like Acer, Gigabyte,
Shuttle, Abit, Asus and many others who design, manufacture and sell
motherboards are making decent money? Surely the development costs are
great, and to assemble and test a motherboard is not a trivial task.
Many of these companies don't have a prayer of selling to major players
like Dell, Compaq or HP (their costs are WAY undercut by companies like
Pionex, Biostar and others), so they probably make a very large
proportion of their profit by selling to Mom'n'Pop shops and to
individuals. If that's true, then there SEEMS to be a rather large
market niche of people and small companies who put together their own
systems. Is my logic faulty?

Somehow I suspect there's a different reason for such a thing not being
available. I could be wrong . . .

TIA

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

The closest I can come is a keyboard PC, where the CPU is in the keyboard.
Don't know how easy it is to modify though. I think there are at least 2
manufacters. Try:

http://www.cybernetman.com/default.cfm/DocId/602.htm

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

Joe Davis wrote:
>
> The closest I can come is a keyboard PC, where the CPU is in the keyboard.
> Don't know how easy it is to modify though. I think there are at least 2
> manufacters. Try:
>
> http://www.cybernetman.com/default.cfm/DocId/602.htm

Huh! I didn't know such existed. No, it's not what I'm looking for,
but thanks for the link. It's interesting!!

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

Sporkman wrote:
>> Lisa Horton wrote:
>>> I seem to remember products similar to what you're asking for, some
>>> years back. Basically a "luggable" case that would take a standard
>>> form factor motherboard, often with a built in monitor of some
>>> sort. I didn't pay close attention at the time and so cannot
>>> recall further details.
>>>
>>> My guess would be that the number of people who need luggability,
>>> but not the portability of a laptop, AND who are willing to build
>>> their own system, is too small to sustain affordable products. If
>>> enough people wanted to buy it, someone would probably make it.
>>>
>>> Lisa
>>
>> Your guess may be good, Lisa Horton, and I thank you sincerely for
>> the feedback.
>>
>> Answer me this, though -- do you think companies like Acer, Gigabyte,
>> Shuttle, Abit, Asus and many others who design, manufacture and sell
>> motherboards are making decent money? Surely the development costs
>> are great, and to assemble and test a motherboard is not a trivial
>> task. Many of these companies don't have a prayer of selling to
>> major players like Dell, Compaq or HP (their costs are WAY undercut
>> by companies like Pionex, Biostar and others), so they probably make
>> a very large proportion of their profit by selling to Mom'n'Pop
>> shops and to individuals. If that's true, then there SEEMS to be a
>> rather large market niche of people and small companies who put
>> together their own systems. Is my logic faulty?
>>
>> Somehow I suspect there's a different reason for such a thing not
>> being available. I could be wrong . . .
>>
>> TIA

Well, for the big ones (Dell n the gang) they want em cheap, and with the
amount of profits they rake in, they want CHEAP...not so much as
reliability...because they can afford to replace a few mobos here and
there..

While for Asus Abit Gigabyte and the gang, they build em to be reliable and
have good/high performance... and the "individuals" would be ready to cough
up a bit extra for these 2 factors. Moreover, the brand name (reliability)
must be good, in order to compete... so that adds strain to the bottom line.

There are still divided groups of PC users/buyers: first timer noobies (who
look for price) and second-or more-timers, who look for quality parts/high
performance stuff instead. Companies have to strike a balance between the
two, so it's a tough thing. For those who like to put together their own
laptops, the high cost of components (of x1 vs x10000 or more) of CPUs etc,
would make it cheaper (in most cases) to buy a ready made unit...

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

Well, my thought is that anything over 10 pounds (the weight of my Inspiron
9100 w/AC adapter) is too big to be lugging around on a regular basis. It
wasn't so bad if you park right outside the office door, but if you have to
lug it around to a parking spot a few blocks away or anything, it stops
being fun. I know this from experience. So you're better off just buying a
laptop, IMHO, if portability is required. IIRC, those old luggables were up
over 20 pounds.

For what it's worth, Acer makes a laptop with a 17" screen and desktop P4
processor, HD, and RAM. Not entirely upgradeable (i.e. AGP slots), but
close. Also, a number of manufacturers (Shuttle and others) make their SFF
machines, as you're aware. I THINK you can get cases for those, which you
could then treat as a luggable unit, but without the monitor. Probably
cheap enough to just give the employee a monitor to stick in their office at
home if that's the only place the computer will be used.

My $0.02 worth.

Clint

"Sporkman" <sporkedUNDERLINEagainMUNGE@bigfootDOT.com> wrote in message
news:40FAEEE5.75EC018C@bigfootDOT.com...
> E Brown wrote:
> > As far as I know, nobody does this affordably. There doesn't
seem
> > to be a large market for it anywhere.
> > Emanuel
>
> That's an interesting comment, Emanuel. Really! I wouldn't disagree
> with you but I'd like to ask you your opinion of WHY there isn't a large
> market (if their isn't). Certainly there are more and more young people
> who aren't afraid to replace a CPU or a motherboard, and who will build
> their own systems if it happens to make economic sense to do so.
> Certainly also there are a lot of workers who need to take their work
> home but who don't need to work while on an airplane, in a car or on a
> bus. Seems to me that their management and their IT people should be
> happy to have a luggable case that they can basically put a desktop
> system in and be able to upgrade from time to time. Save them the cost
> of a new laptop evey couple of years, allow the employees to work on
> powerful systems without having to burn CDs and/or use FTP or logon to
> office systems from home, keep the companies from having to spend a lot
> of money up front . . .
>
> D'ya think the reason such a thing doesn't exist is because laptop
> manufacturers just want to sell entire laptops (much bigger profit)? Or
> is it because of technical limitations in making such a thing compact
> enough? Or just because it just doesn't make economic sense? All of
> the above?
>
> TIA

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

Sporkman <sporkedUNDERLINEagainMUNGE@bigfootDOT.com> wrote:
>
> D'ya think the reason such a thing doesn't exist is because laptop
> manufacturers just want to sell entire laptops (much bigger profit)?
> Or is it because of technical limitations in making such a thing
> compact enough? Or just because it just doesn't make economic sense?
> All of the above?

All of the above. Besides, where's the sense in lugging a "portable" desktop
around when it's so much easier (and cheaper) to simply carry the
information around with you on some type of removable media?

--
Regards,

James

Checkout the NEW Thinkpad Forums: http://forum.thinkpads.com

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

Sporkman wrote:
>
> Lisa Horton wrote:
> > I seem to remember products similar to what you're asking for, some
> > years back. Basically a "luggable" case that would take a standard form
> > factor motherboard, often with a built in monitor of some sort. I
> > didn't pay close attention at the time and so cannot recall further
> > details.
> >
> > My guess would be that the number of people who need luggability, but
> > not the portability of a laptop, AND who are willing to build their own
> > system, is too small to sustain affordable products. If enough people
> > wanted to buy it, someone would probably make it.
> >
> > Lisa
>
> Your guess may be good, Lisa Horton, and I thank you sincerely for the
> feedback.
>
> Answer me this, though -- do you think companies like Acer, Gigabyte,
> Shuttle, Abit, Asus and many others who design, manufacture and sell
> motherboards are making decent money? Surely the development costs are
> great, and to assemble and test a motherboard is not a trivial task.
> Many of these companies don't have a prayer of selling to major players
> like Dell, Compaq or HP (their costs are WAY undercut by companies like
> Pionex, Biostar and others), so they probably make a very large
> proportion of their profit by selling to Mom'n'Pop shops and to
> individuals. If that's true, then there SEEMS to be a rather large
> market niche of people and small companies who put together their own
> systems. Is my logic faulty?

I think that the motherboard companies you mention are probably making
money, considering that they continue to be in business. I wouldn't
speculate on how much, although research might be able to answer that
question.

Where I think your logic may not be correct is in confusing the group of
people who will/do build their systems, with the subset of that group,
those who will/want to build their own luggable system.

Also, I don't see this as necessarily a motherboard issue. Surely the
tiny mini-ATX type mobos could be shoehorned into a luggable form
factor. I'm thinking sewing machine size, with an LCD monitor on one
side. It would seem to me that all that's missing is the luggable
case. And if such a product was once sold but is not now, then there is
a reason the manufacturers stopped making them. Reasons could include
but not be limited to low sales, expensive to make, certain components
becoming too expensive or unavailable.

>
> Somehow I suspect there's a different reason for such a thing not being
> available. I could be wrong . . .

My casual analysis points me in the direction of low demand.

I'm actually in what might be the target group. I want a machine that's
close to as fast as a desktop, and I don't mind (too much) carrying the
weight needed to deliver that. What would a luggable offer me over my
current big heavy laptop? A bigger screen? At 15.5 inches widescreen,
the display couldn't get much, if any bigger in the luggable form
factor. Access to bigger & faster internal drives? True, but I like
the modular approach I'm using of multiple external drives on USB2.0 and
Firewire. I don't have to carry the big drives ALL the time. PCI
Expansion slots? Yes, but what little I need that a modern full
featured laptop doesn't include can pretty much all be accommodated by
PC cards. I could go on, but in short, I don't see the luggable as
offering any compelling advantages over a large laptop, yet the luggable
would still be larger and likely heavier.

But I could be wrong too

Lisa

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

Good comments and (apparently) clear thinking, Lisa. Thanks.

Lisa Horton wrote:
> I think that the motherboard companies you mention are probably making
> money, considering that they continue to be in business. I wouldn't
> speculate on how much, although research might be able to answer that
> question.
>
> Where I think your logic may not be correct is in confusing the group of
> people who will/do build their systems, with the subset of that group,
> those who will/want to build their own luggable system.
>
> Also, I don't see this as necessarily a motherboard issue. Surely the
> tiny mini-ATX type mobos could be shoehorned into a luggable form
> factor. I'm thinking sewing machine size, with an LCD monitor on one
> side. It would seem to me that all that's missing is the luggable
> case. And if such a product was once sold but is not now, then there is
> a reason the manufacturers stopped making them. Reasons could include
> but not be limited to low sales, expensive to make, certain components
> becoming too expensive or unavailable.
>
> My casual analysis points me in the direction of low demand.
>
> I'm actually in what might be the target group. I want a machine that's
> close to as fast as a desktop, and I don't mind (too much) carrying the
> weight needed to deliver that. What would a luggable offer me over my
> current big heavy laptop? A bigger screen? At 15.5 inches widescreen,
> the display couldn't get much, if any bigger in the luggable form
> factor. Access to bigger & faster internal drives? True, but I like
> the modular approach I'm using of multiple external drives on USB2.0 and
> Firewire. I don't have to carry the big drives ALL the time. PCI
> Expansion slots? Yes, but what little I need that a modern full
> featured laptop doesn't include can pretty much all be accommodated by
> PC cards. I could go on, but in short, I don't see the luggable as
> offering any compelling advantages over a large laptop, yet the luggable
> would still be larger and likely heavier.
>
> But I could be wrong too
>
> Lisa

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

Thanks. Good insights.
Also thanks to James and others who posted.

Clint wrote:
>
> Well, my thought is that anything over 10 pounds (the weight of my Inspiron
> 9100 w/AC adapter) is too big to be lugging around on a regular basis. It
> wasn't so bad if you park right outside the office door, but if you have to
> lug it around to a parking spot a few blocks away or anything, it stops
> being fun. I know this from experience. So you're better off just buying a
> laptop, IMHO, if portability is required. IIRC, those old luggables were up
> over 20 pounds.
>
> For what it's worth, Acer makes a laptop with a 17" screen and desktop P4
> processor, HD, and RAM. Not entirely upgradeable (i.e. AGP slots), but
> close. Also, a number of manufacturers (Shuttle and others) make their SFF
> machines, as you're aware. I THINK you can get cases for those, which you
> could then treat as a luggable unit, but without the monitor. Probably
> cheap enough to just give the employee a monitor to stick in their office at
> home if that's the only place the computer will be used.
>
> My $0.02 worth.
>
> C