Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

Hi,

I'm a bit confused about what HDDs could be used in a Thinkpad 560Z.

I've read infos from IBM, news:ibm.ibmpc.thinkpad (sorry, I can't post
to this group) and other places but these statements seem to be
contradictory.

As far as JHEM said (Newsgroups:ibm.ibmpc.thinkpad, Date:2003-11-05
20:11:56, Re: 560Z Hard drive) I could use any HDD up 80 GB; but

Which BIOS version would I need?
Do I need an additional BIOS patch from IBM?
Is the sometimes mentioned 8.4 GB limit related to a certain BIOS
version?

btw.: what about the 560X?

Stephan

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 21:24:19 +0200, Karl-Stephan Werkmeister
<kastwerk@web.de> wrote:

>Hi,
>
>I'm a bit confused about what HDDs could be used in a Thinkpad 560Z.
>
From what I understand, the 560Z can take any size drive (80GB is
the current largest 2.5" drive) right out of the box. The 560X needs a
BIOS upgrade. The 560E and original 560 are limited to 8GB or so.
Emanuel

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

Karl-Stephan Werkmeister <kastwerk@web.de> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm a bit confused about what HDDs could be used in a Thinkpad 560Z.
>
> As far as JHEM said (Newsgroups:ibm.ibmpc.thinkpad, Date:2003-11-05
> 20:11:56, Re: 560Z Hard drive) I could use any HDD up 80 GB; but

Correct. The 560Z, which was built on the same Intel 440BX chipset as the
Thinkpad 600 series, shares the 600E and X series ability to use _any_ HD up
to an including the newest 80GB models.

> Which BIOS version would I need?

It's always a good idea to keep the BIOS in your machine upgraded to the
latest version available.

http://www-306.ibm.com/pc/support/ [...] SHY-3YTKKV

> Do I need an additional BIOS patch from IBM?

No.

> Is the sometimes mentioned 8.4 GB limit related to a certain BIOS
> version?

The 8.4GB limitation only affects the earlier 560 and 560E series machines,
the 560Z has NO hard drive size limitation.

--
Regards,

James

Checkout the NEW Thinkpad Forums: http://forum.thinkpads.com

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

I have a 30GB IBM drive in my 560Z, it worked out of the box and I'm
running Win98SE and Linux on it.

I also have a 128MB memory modules on my 560Z (total 192MB) and it
works fine. IBM says limit is 64MB + 64MB. I'm looking for a 256MB EDO
SO-DIMM module to see if that would work as well.

Overall, the 560Z is a great vintage notebook which will run Linux.
There is not much available today that I would consider trading it for.

See ya, -ingo
--
/* Ingo Cyliax, cyliax@ezcomm.com, Tel: 812-391-0895 */

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

> The 8.4GB limitation only affects the earlier 560 and 560E series
machines,
> the 560Z has NO hard drive size limitation.

The 560 2640 ENA has a 4.1GB limitation. But this limitation can be easily
worked around using a DDO (dynamic drive overlay) such as MAXBlast and a
little bit of fiddling. I know this as I've put a 20GB HDD in my 560 and no
problems to date. With the 8MB on disk cache the 560 is no longer I/O bound
but now processor bound, i.e. performance has improved remarkably, Win98
boots in under less than a minute.

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

JJHEM wrote:
>
> It's always a good idea to keep the BIOS in your machine upgraded to the
> latest version available.
>
> http://www-306.ibm.com/pc/support/ [...] SHY-3YTKKV
>
I would agree, but since I've once got trouble updating a PC BIOS I'm a
bit anxious about this.
The BIOS chip seemed to be faulty and did not update correctly (not even
in an external flasher).
I could replace the chip with a new one but if this happend in the TP it
would be dead, wouldn't it?
>
> > Is the sometimes mentioned 8.4 GB limit related to a certain BIOS
> > version?
>
> The 8.4GB limitation only affects the earlier 560 and 560E series machines,
> the 560Z has NO hard drive size limitation.

I see. Again I was unsecure due to my PC experience. I had to update the
BIOS of an older PC of mine three times (8 GB, 32 GB, 64 GB barriers)
even though the chipset did support HDDs up to 128 GB.


btw: I've checked the BIOS version of my 560Z now using your link. It is
already the latest one, :-).

thank you!

Stephan

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

Stephen Melis wrote:
>
> The 560 2640 ENA has a 4.1GB limitation. But this limitation can be easily
> worked around using a DDO (dynamic drive overlay) such as MAXBlast and a
> little bit of fiddling.

What fiddling do you mean exactly? I once upgraded a PC with a large
Samsung HDD using DDO. This PC did not boot until I manually set the HDD
to 528 MB in the BIOS. Autodetect didn't work. That is why I'm not sure
whether this worked in TP that doesn't allow any settings in the BIOS
setup.

I know this as I've put a 20GB HDD in my 560 and no
> problems to date. With the 8MB on disk cache the 560 is no longer I/O bound
> but now processor bound, i.e. performance has improved remarkably, Win98
> boots in under less than a minute.

I agree. Using a fast HDD gives you in office applications often a
better performance boost than a faster CPU.

Stephan

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

Ingo Cyliax wrote:
>
> Overall, the 560Z is a great vintage notebook which will run Linux.
> There is not much available today that I would consider trading it for.
>
Oh yes, I also keep to reliable practical systems.
A few week ago my old TP 560 went broken and I was really upset.
Thanks to EBay, I got an almost new 560X and additionally a 560Z for me
and my wife for little money.
Surely there are always better, faster and cheaper solutions.
But I stick to what I know I can rely on.

Stephan

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

I posted the following message some time ago, as you can see below have the
full 20GB available using the DDO as I use the TP as a photo album. No
problems just a few things to remember:

1) Allocate 2 partitions one at 4GB and the second using the remainder. If
you don't and the TP suspends it can cause disk errors on resume. If you
resume after suspend do not access the second partion otherwise you will
have disk errors. The reason being when the TP resumes the DDO somehow is
lost and so the full disk cannot be seen.

2) place WIN98 and all software on the 1st partition and use the 2nd partion
for data or as in my case photos

3) Disable suspend, i.e. TP is either on or off, no suspend or hibernate.
the TP can suspend if the battery is nearly flat so set the power options at
4% to shutdown. If the TP does suspend then when you resume you must
shutdown and restart with a cold boot

4) To conserve battery now that there is no suspend use AMNRefrigerator or
RAIN or the like with WIN98

5) Now the DDO is installed, go to the BIOS and ensure the HDD is the first
boot device as the DDO must load first. Never boot from floppy again with
out booting from HDD first.

6) The TP will no longer warm boot, but that doesn't matter. This is because
the BIOS on warm boot does not read the MBR and the MBR must be read to see
the disk. So always cold boot. To cold boot after a failed warm boot just
hold the power switch in for several seconds and release.

6) Enjoy the bigger disk and faster TP560

If all this is too much then consider LINUX, I've been told LINUX can work
around these limitation without the DDO.

At one time I was wishing the TP560 had a USB port, but alas it doesn't and
never can, so I use a wireless adapter to another PC which has the USB port.

My TP560 2640 ENA lives on.......

----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephen Melis" <stephen.melisNOSPAM@bigpond.com>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.laptops
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 6:41 AM
Subject: Re: Thinkpad 560 hard disk upgrade


> Well after searching for some time I have not found any disk driver to
allow
> the remainder of the disk to be seen. I have not found any win98
hibernation
> or suspend to disk drivers or functions, as like in WINXP that can bypass
> the BIOS hibernate. So I am ready to forgo the hibernate for the remaining
> disk and reverse my previous choice.
>
> So I did a clean install with MAXBLAST 3 with the HDD already limited to
the
> 4GB using the Hitachi Feature Tool. MAXBLAST could see the entire disk. I
> tried this with other DDO such as DiskManager and they didn't work with
the
> soft disk limit, i.e. they didn't see the disk beyond the soft disk limit
of
> 4GB.
>
> Having gone back to MAXBLAST 3 it seems to work with the clean
installation.
>
> In summary:
> Installing a new HDD in to an old laptop that cannot support the drive
will
> most probably require the limiting of the drive such as to 4GB for the
> Thinkpad 560 with the 1998 BIOS. This limiting needs to be done either on
> another PC that can support the drive or set the drive to SLAVE and run
the
> Feature Tool to limit the size. Set the drive to MASTER, reassemble the
> laptop and boot the MAXBLAST 3 floppy. Then follow the instructions.
>
> Finally, once you have the DDO installed boot to the BIOS and ensure the
> system always boots from HDD and never floppy. This will save lots of
> problems should the booted floppy overwrite the DDO.
>
> Lastly, you might ask why all this fuss. Well with the advent of the
digital
> camera I can now take heaps of photos and then need some place to store
them
> if I'm away from the CD burner, such as when on holidays.
>
> "Stephen Melis" <stephen.melisNOSPAM@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:...
> > I've been looking for any way to enable the hibernation but alas found
> none.
> > So if you want hibernation then 4.23Gbyte of disk space is the max you
can
> > go for the Thinkpad 560 2640 ENA unless I can find a win98 driver
> somewhere
> > that will see the remainder of the drive after windows98 boots.
> >
> > The basic situation is the the disk must be configured to be a maximum
of
> > 4.23 Gbytes or the TP won't boot, using a DDO like MaxBlast will not
allow
> > hibernation nor will it allow a warm boot and may not revive correctly
> from
> > suspend to RAM. Also I've had some disk corruption when accessing high
end
> > of the disk. Therefore the best option really is to not use a DDO and
use
> > the disk through DOS with the Feature Tool setting the disk size to
> > 4.23Gbyte and then see if a Driver for win98 can be found to support the
> > remainder.
> >
> > Hopefully some one can help and let me know if there is such a driver.
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> >
> > Steve
> >
> >
> > "Stephen Melis" <stephen.melis@NOSPAMbigpond.com> wrote in message
> > news:0ozYa.19677$bo1.13520@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> > > Here is what I've found, after doing several installation.
> > >
> > > The disk is a 20Gbyte Hitachi Travelstar.
> > > I downloaded the Hitachi Feature Tool
> > > MaxBlast 3 and
> > > Disk Master 9.55.
> > >
> > > 0. Remove power and battery from the laptop
> > > 1. Disassemble the laptop according to the IBM documentation and
remove
> > the
> > > old HDD
> > > 2. Set the new HDD jumper to be a slave drive
> > > 3. Install the new HDD in to the Thinkpad 560 but don't replace the
> laptop
> > > cover as we will need to remove the jumper soon
> > > 4. Attach the floppy drive
> > > 5. Boot with Disk Manager 9.55 floppy
> > > 6. Commence the disk installation procedure but it will fail when it
> tries
> > > for format the disk, the important part here is setting the partion
> table.
> > > When it gets to the point of fail goto step 7
> > > 7. insert the Hitachi Feature Disk in the floppy and reboot
> > > 8. Set the disk size to 4.1Gbyte, the Thinkpad 560 2640 ENA seems to
> have
> > a
> > > 4.2 Gbyte BIOS limitation.
> > > 9. Power off and remove the power
> > > 10. Remove the slave jumper on the disk drive so it is now master.
> > > 11. Insert the MAXBLAST floppy
> > > 12. Power on and Boot the MAXBLAST Floppy
> > > 13. Install the DDO and partions by following the MAXBLAST prompts
> > > 14. System now ready to install the OS such as Win98.
> > >
> > > The good new is that by following this procedure, and believe me I
spent
> > an
> > > entire week installing and uninstalling and found problems at evey
> corner
> > > with some incompatability or some other operatonal problem, The system
> > will
> > > work well except for the two conditions below
> > >
> > > Now the problems:
> > > 1) Warm boot doesn't work any more (but I can live with that), it must
> be
> > > cold booted every time
> > > 2) Hibernation doesn't work any more. The Thinkpad utilities software
> > thinks
> > > that the disk has a proprietary compression program installed and
won't
> > > install the hibernation files. Note Suspend does work using this
> > > installation, using Disk Manager Alone without using MAXBLAST means
> > suspend
> > > won't be successful and there seems to be a resume problem.
> > >
> > > Anyway if anyone can help with an alternative to the BIOS hibernation
> for
> > > Win98, that would be really good and I would really appreciate it
> > >
> > > Steve
> > > --
> > > REMOVE the NOSPAM from the email address to reply.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "Stephen Melis" <stephen.melisNOSPAM@bigpond.com> wrote in message
> > > news:GK%Wa.7308$bo1.5067@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> > > > Hi Monty,
> > > >
> > > > My responses marked a1) to a6) and S) as inline below.
> > > >
> > > > Many Thanks for your help.
> > > >
> > > > Stephen
> > > > --
> > > > Remove the NOSPAM to reply
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: <phat.joe@gmx.net>
> > > > To: "Stephen Melis" <>
> > > > Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2003 11:34 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: Thinkpad 560 hard disk upgrade
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "Stephen Melis" <stephen.melisNOSPAM@bigpond.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:<KXGWa.6052$bo1.2721@news-server.bigpond.net.au>...
> > > > > Hi Monty,
> > > > >
> > > > > I've installed the new drive but it locks up the laptop when
trying
> to
> >
> > > > boot
> > > > > from floppy. When I put the old drive back in I'm up and running
> again
> > > and
> > > > I
> > > > > can boot from floppy when no hard drive is installed. I'm now at a
> > loss
> > > > for
> > > > > what to do now!
> > > > ---
> > > > Hi Stephen,
> > > >
> > > > please provide some additional info:
> > > >
> > > > 1) What is the manufacturer and model no. of the new hard drive that
> you
> > > > intend to use?
> > > >
> > > > a1) The drive is a HITACHI Travelstar 20Gbyte Model IC25N020ATMR04-0
> > > >
> > > > 2) At which point during boot-up does the machine hang *exactly*? Is
> the
> > > > POST completed successfully?
> > > >
> > > > a2) The machine hangs just on when it tries to boot from floppy. it
> > passes
> > > > the memory and system tests. I've used the system diagnostics and
can
> > see
> > > > and test the drive from the BIOS diagnostic/test program. If I put
the
> > > disk
> > > > as a slave then the TP will boot from floppy, but then I cannot
format
> > the
> > > > HDD, however I can see it with Disk Manager and set up the partition
> > > tables
> > > > but I cannot put a fat 32 format on it, it tells me the disk is
> faulty.
> > > I've
> > > > also tried the same with a 12Gbyte IBM Travelstar and achived the
same
> > > > result. With the 12Gbyte I even did a low level format using Dos
Disk
> > > > Manager Version 9.55 without problem, however I could not FAT32
format
> > the
> > > > disk. I can even to a drive fittness test with the disk in slave
mode
> > and
> > > > all passes. With the new HDD as master and booting with F1 key press
I
> > can
> > > > even get in to the BIOS and run all the diagnostic tests, even the
> hard
> > > disk
> > > > one, and all pass.
> > > >
> > > > 3) Did you already install the DDO to the new HD? Or weren't you
even
> > able
> > > > to do this because of hang-ups?
> > > >
> > > > a3) I did install the DDO when the disk was in slave mode however I
> > could
> > > > not format the drive as the system told me the disk was not
installed
> > > > properly, it is probably looking for the master hard disk and there
> > wasn't
> > > > one. When the disk was put back to master, no boot .
> > > >
> > > > 4) Which DDO *exactly* did you install / try to install?
> > > >
> > > > a4) Using DOS Disk Manager 9.55 and its DDO
> > > >
> > > > 5) Which disks do you use for booting up -- what is the OS?
> > > >
> > > > a5) I've used the Disk Manager boot disk and installed the DDO on
the
> > > win98
> > > > boot floppy.
> > > >
> > > > 6) Please describe *how* you tried to boot from floppy. Have you
> already
> > > > installed the DDO and now you want to boot from floppy the ordinary
> way?
> > > >
> > > > a6) Basically I've placed the Disk Manager Boot disk and tried with
> the
> > > > Win98 Boot disk in the floppy drive and press reset and powered on.
> The
> > TP
> > > > goes through the BIOS memory check and commences the boot from
floppy
> > and
> > > > seems to just hang when the new HDD is in master mode
> > > >
> > > > Please note that after installing a DDO you can no longer boot from
> > floppy
> > > > the way you used to. The way this is done has changed, because it
must
> > > > always
> > > > be guaranteed that the DDO is loaded when the hard drive will be
> > accessed.
> > > > Of
> > > > course such a DDO is not included on your common boot disks,
therefore
> > you
> > > > won't be granted access to the hard drive from a usual boot disk.
> > > >
> > > > S) That I didn't know but I haven't got that far yet, something
seems
> to
> > > be
> > > > stopping the boot continuing.
> > > >
> > > > Generally speaking, a DDO requires you to boot from the hard drive.
> > > However,
> > > > when installing that DDO, you are given the opportunity to activate
a
> > > > special option that also allows you to boot from regular floppies.
If
> > you
> > > > configure
> > > > the DDO to allow for that option, the DDO will boot from HD and then
> > wait
> > > > for a few seconds so that you can press a key which tells the DDO to
> > > > continue
> > > > booting from floppy instead of HD. If I recall that correctly, you
> have
> > to
> > > > press the space bar with the Ontrack kind of software.
> > > >
> > > > S) I have no problem booting from a special disk once I can get the
> HDD
> > to
> > > > work.
> > > >
> > > > So with an Ontrack DDO installed, properly booting from floppy would
> > look
> > > > like this:
> > > >
> > > > A) Make sure that there is no disk in the floppy drive.
> > > >
> > > > B) Start the computer. Let it go through POST and load the DDO from
> hard
> > > > drive.
> > > >
> > > > C) Quickly press space bar and insert the disk you want to boot from
> > into
> > > > the floppy drive.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Best,
> > > > Monty
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > COMPUTERBILD 15/03: Premium-e-mail-Dienste im Test
> > > > --------------------------------------------------
> > > > 1. GMX TopMail - Platz 1 und Testsieger!
> > > > 2. GMX ProMail - Platz 2 und Preis-Qualitätssieger!
> > > > 3. Arcor - 4. web.de - 5. T-Online - 6. freenet.de - 7. daybyday -
8.
> > > e-Post
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>

"Karl-Stephan Werkmeister" <kastwerk@web.de> wrote in message
news:40F80F17.65BE4D9C@web.de...
> Stephen Melis wrote:
> >
> > The 560 2640 ENA has a 4.1GB limitation. But this limitation can be
easily
> > worked around using a DDO (dynamic drive overlay) such as MAXBlast and a
> > little bit of fiddling.
>
> What fiddling do you mean exactly? I once upgraded a PC with a large
> Samsung HDD using DDO. This PC did not boot until I manually set the HDD
> to 528 MB in the BIOS. Autodetect didn't work. That is why I'm not sure
> whether this worked in TP that doesn't allow any settings in the BIOS
> setup.
>
> I know this as I've put a 20GB HDD in my 560 and no
> > problems to date. With the 8MB on disk cache the 560 is no longer I/O
bound
> > but now processor bound, i.e. performance has improved remarkably, Win98
> > boots in under less than a minute.
>
> I agree. Using a fast HDD gives you in office applications often a
> better performance boost than a faster CPU.
>
> Stephan