Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

Over the years, I have seen a disturbing trend that most don't seem to
object to: keyboard layout.

Although I do recognize that it eventually boils down to a matter of
taste, since we are the customers, why is it that capslock, which cannot
be considered to be the most useful key of the keyboard, has moved from
a reasonable place (the current Alt on most keyboards) to its current
location where it is nearly the largest key. Although this happened a
long time ago, has any one a rational explanation for this and more
importantly, for not objecting to this NOW? The explanation I am
expecting (Windows demanded this) is pure BS: wherever the location of
the keys, those three-key combination "shortcuts" are non-sense and
could be replaced by two key shortcuts as is easily demonstrated in MS
programs where macros can be programmed.

Then why is it that some manufacturers, among them IBM to my dismay,
have chosen to put the Delete key as far as possible from its original
and, to me, logical place on the first row to the right? This is a
manufacturer's issue, not a Windows issue. What is the rational for
this, and do you users like this? When I buy a laptop, lots of factors
enter my mind but the logical layout of the keyboard is one of them.

I am also aggravated to see that manufacturers have elected to add
ridiculous keys like Internet Keys, "browsing keys" (IBM too, on the X31
to name one) to their keyboards ... A friend of mine who could not have
anything else than IBMs was recently boasting about the fact that IBMs
did not include a Windows key in its keyboards...Well, IBM now did worse
than that!

Should we users not demand a standardized keyboard, or for lack of it,
keyboards where physically and functionally moving the keys from one
location to another would not take a degree in rocket science? Does any
one remember the Gateway 2000 Keyboard with its programmable keys? I am
still using one with my Desktop and I hope it never fails...But on
laptops, you have to be happy with the keyboard that comes with the
machine. Personally, I use a key remapper to restore things the way I
want them but this creates other problems when someone else "attempts"
to use my machine ... !

One last point: if some manufacturers and if M$ think that there is a
niche market for machines and OSes especially designed for kids, let
them fill the need with those OSes that insist on locating everything in
My documents and such childishly named directories and with machines
with bright colors and keyboards designed with the specific needs of
children in mind. But let us have a chance to be reasonably educated users.

--
John Doue

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

John Doue <notwobe@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Although I do recognize that it eventually boils down to a matter of
> taste, since we are the customers, why is it that capslock, which cannot
> be considered to be the most useful key of the keyboard, has moved from
> a reasonable place (the current Alt on most keyboards) to its current
> location where it is nearly the largest key. Although this happened a

People usually swap capslock and ctrl.

I agree - caplock is something I never use and if I do use it I don't
need it to be bigger than the rest. I need shift to be bigger.


> Then why is it that some manufacturers, among them IBM to my dismay,
> have chosen to put the Delete key as far as possible from its original

Delete? It's useful to put it far away - one usually wants to backspace
rather than rubout! Delete is a strange thing to do. It involves moving
the cursor one further to the left before then using delete. Why? You
could have just backspaced out the target from the right without the
extra cursor movement to the left.


> and, to me, logical place on the first row to the right? This is a


?? I don't know where you mean. Backspace is there on my keyboard, I
think. If you want the backspace to generate delete instead, feel free
to swap it.

> manufacturer's issue, not a Windows issue. What is the rational for
> this, and do you users like this? When I buy a laptop, lots of factors
> enter my mind but the logical layout of the keyboard is one of them.

You don't generally get a choice - I hate the place of the esc key on
ibm keyboards. It's top left, too far for my pinky to reach! But I love
the fact that at least alt ctrl and alt-gr are in the right places next
to the space bar. My toshiba had < and > and some other useless stuff
there! Very dangerous.

> I am also aggravated to see that manufacturers have elected to add
> ridiculous keys like Internet Keys, "browsing keys" (IBM too, on the X31

Sure - they should go. Thank goodness my TP has none of those.

> to name one) to their keyboards ... A friend of mine who could not have
> anything else than IBMs was recently boasting about the fact that IBMs
> did not include a Windows key in its keyboards...Well, IBM now did worse

Yes, that's WONDERFUL! Thank goodness! No windows key. It's a great
point for ibm, and I personally am very grateful.

> than that!

I don't understand you.

> Should we users not demand a standardized keyboard, or for lack of it,
> keyboards where physically and functionally moving the keys from one
> location to another would not take a degree in rocket science? Does any


But they don't! You can move the keys wherever you like on most
keyboards. On my toshia portege 4000 I moved most of the keys to where
I preferred them. They "unclick" and click back in easily.

> one remember the Gateway 2000 Keyboard with its programmable keys? I am


?? All keyboards are "progrmmable", by definition. Change your country
code for keyboard layout and see what happens! The only thing you
can't do is change the letters engraved on the keys - hence the "need"
to sometimes physically move them around, or stick little pieces of
paper on top.

You seem confused about something here!

> still using one with my Desktop and I hope it never fails...But on
> laptops, you have to be happy with the keyboard that comes with the
> machine. Personally, I use a key remapper to restore things the way I

No you don't. All o/s's I've ever seen allow you to define what keycode
generates what character code. That's the keyboard layout app. You
don't need a "key remapper"!

> want them but this creates other problems when someone else "attempts"
> to use my machine ... !

Of course it does - what would you expect? Let them change it back if
they like it a different way.

Peter

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

P.T. Breuer wrote:

> John Doue <notwobe@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>Although I do recognize that it eventually boils down to a matter of
>>taste, since we are the customers, why is it that capslock, which cannot
>>be considered to be the most useful key of the keyboard, has moved from
>>a reasonable place (the current Alt on most keyboards) to its current
>>location where it is nearly the largest key. Although this happened a
>
>
> People usually swap capslock and ctrl.
>
> I agree - caplock is something I never use and if I do use it I don't
> need it to be bigger than the rest. I need shift to be bigger.
>
>
>
>>Then why is it that some manufacturers, among them IBM to my dismay,
>>have chosen to put the Delete key as far as possible from its original
>
>
> Delete? It's useful to put it far away - one usually wants to backspace
> rather than rubout! Delete is a strange thing to do. It involves moving
> the cursor one further to the left before then using delete. Why? You
> could have just backspaced out the target from the right without the
> extra cursor movement to the left.
>
>
>
>>and, to me, logical place on the first row to the right? This is a
>
>
>
> ?? I don't know where you mean. Backspace is there on my keyboard, I
> think. If you want the backspace to generate delete instead, feel free
> to swap it.
>
>
>>manufacturer's issue, not a Windows issue. What is the rational for
>>this, and do you users like this? When I buy a laptop, lots of factors
>>enter my mind but the logical layout of the keyboard is one of them.
>
>
> You don't generally get a choice - I hate the place of the esc key on
> ibm keyboards. It's top left, too far for my pinky to reach! But I love
> the fact that at least alt ctrl and alt-gr are in the right places next
> to the space bar. My toshiba had < and > and some other useless stuff
> there! Very dangerous.
>
>
>>I am also aggravated to see that manufacturers have elected to add
>>ridiculous keys like Internet Keys, "browsing keys" (IBM too, on the X31
>
>
> Sure - they should go. Thank goodness my TP has none of those.
>
>
>>to name one) to their keyboards ... A friend of mine who could not have
>>anything else than IBMs was recently boasting about the fact that IBMs
>>did not include a Windows key in its keyboards...Well, IBM now did worse
>
>
> Yes, that's WONDERFUL! Thank goodness! No windows key. It's a great
> point for ibm, and I personally am very grateful.
>
>
>>than that!
>
>
> I don't understand you.
>
>
>>Should we users not demand a standardized keyboard, or for lack of it,
>>keyboards where physically and functionally moving the keys from one
>>location to another would not take a degree in rocket science? Does any
>
>
>
> But they don't! You can move the keys wherever you like on most
> keyboards. On my toshia portege 4000 I moved most of the keys to where
> I preferred them. They "unclick" and click back in easily.
>
>
>>one remember the Gateway 2000 Keyboard with its programmable keys? I am
>
>
>
> ?? All keyboards are "progrmmable", by definition. Change your country
> code for keyboard layout and see what happens! The only thing you
> can't do is change the letters engraved on the keys - hence the "need"
> to sometimes physically move them around, or stick little pieces of
> paper on top.
>
> You seem confused about something here!
>
>
>>still using one with my Desktop and I hope it never fails...But on
>>laptops, you have to be happy with the keyboard that comes with the
>>machine. Personally, I use a key remapper to restore things the way I
>
>
> No you don't. All o/s's I've ever seen allow you to define what keycode
> generates what character code. That's the keyboard layout app. You
> don't need a "key remapper"!
>
>
>>want them but this creates other problems when someone else "attempts"
>>to use my machine ... !
>
>
> Of course it does - what would you expect? Let them change it back if
> they like it a different way.
>
> Peter
Peter,

I do not use the Del when I type - I agree with you - but when I handle
files, which I do a lot.

I meant, good for IBM not to have the Windows key but very bad that they
added those stupid browser keys.

Remapping the keyboard: of course, one can use the keyboard utility from
windows, I personally prefer a specific utility. Same thing but
different interface.

Moving keys physically is challenging: easy to make them pop out but the
risk of breakage is no negligeable and then putting them back in ...
same thing, no assurance they will stay there. My blood pressure goes
up...But it is always nice to have keys that behave the way one expects
them by looking at them...

Regards

--
John Doue