I mean how subjectively would you be able to tell the difference (if you were blind to the components within a PC) between a Q6600 and a Phenom.
At work I use a P4 3.0 machine, my PowerBook (1.5GHz single core PowerPC CPU) and a £2500 ($5000) QX6850 machine and at home (although it doesn't work at the moment! ) the system in my sig. So, a large variation!
Subjectively in everyday use there is no difference between my 6000+ (stock) and the QX6850 (stock, for obvious reasons!)
Let alone the difference between a Phenom 9600 & Q6600 with similar performance & price points....
The only time that there is any tangible difference is during rendering that I do in CS3, heavy video-conversions of uncompressed AVIs (usually smallest 5Gb, normally more like 10-30Gb), Photoshop rendering and stuff like that.
That time to me is valuable (and for my employers! ) and there is a benefit with such a machine.
The average user (or even enthusiast) is not going to be able to tell the difference between identical systems (other than CPU) in gaming/word processing or net surfing...
So perhaps, we could have less of the "Phenom sucks"/"Intel sucks" and associated fanboy/girl-isms...
Thanks!

Benchmark it. Try to encode video with it. Try to do any intensive task that takes a long time to complete...

Wow TC, of all people you disappoint me with that response...
I don't benchmark all the time, because I don't give a **** about 500 3DMark's, I've done it, because I can, not because I'm bothered about the outcome...
The processors are not so far apart, video-encoding may be a few seconds difference.
I bet the difference between my QX6850 & 6000+ is minutes (I know there is a large price difference).
I meant subjectively in normal use. I mean can I really tell the difference between say 40fps & 60?
I very much doubt it, so is it really worth arguing about?

You do realize this is a website and forum for computer enthusiasts, right?

Indeed I do, I guess you can't introduce logic to kids
Perhaps I am wrong in understanding both sides & trying to be more realistic about it....

Just to encode 2 minutes of a movie, Intel's proc is 26 seconds faster.



Let's say it's a 90 minute movie:

26 seconds * 45 = 19.5 Minutes


The Intel machine, with a lowly Q6600 finishes encoding 18 minutes quicker than AMD's best quad core.


You're telling me you wouldn't notice something taking 19 minutes longer?

Like I posted in another thread, the reason why people despite Phenom is not because of its marginal performance gap between itself and Q6600, but the fact that it was supposed to bring competition back to the market. Well guess what, it did the exact opposite: take competition away from the market.

AMD screwed up this one, just like how Intel screwed up their Prescott launch. Now AMD should do something to salvage the situation, or face the fact that it will walk down Intel's Prescott road.

In other words, what's normal in Tom's Forums may be considered OCD or OCPD by the average Joe.

Well I stand corrected, with figures like that!
To be honest, I will put my hands up here and admit that I didn't realise the performance was that different!
It's just **** annoying seeing Phenom is **** in every bloody thread!
Guess I'd better get over it, as it certainly ain't going to get any better until B3....

We could always get rid of all the objective benchmarks and replace them with subjective ones:

Was it "fast enough"?
Do you like the color of the box it came in?
Was the cpu shiny when you inserted it into the socket?
What was your mood when installing the CPU?
Has the CPU negatively affected any relationships in your life?

The Phenom is not a bad CPU, it's just not as good as the Intel.

That point seems to being arguing more the lack of difference between processors of different price points. You do get noticeably better performance off of a better performing CPU obviously. If AMD are charging a price which is incongruous with how well it performs people have a right to complain, especially considering how most enthusiasts are very pro a competitive market which is a direction we are moving away from.

Just my two pence
Chris

Then why start this thread?

LOL. Yes there is a difference. But you do have a point. Joe Schmo that calls up Dell doesn't care what proc he gets.

However, the performance of K10 has pushed all K10 procs into the value and low-midrange end.