Hello People,

My retirement from Windowz Vista is going rather swimmingly for the past few days. I'm making it a point to check in and see how the struggle is going here at the Vista brain washing center. I hope my most excellent friends DaSickNinga & Zoron are doing well at whatever it is that they do? As for me I'm relaxing at my PC in the OS of the day.

Over the years my experiences with computers have grown and grown. I'm quite lucky since I have experience with many different platforms and so my computer use is well rounded. Starting with BSD I have always had at least one server running at home. Several weeks ago I retired my last server that was running Apache, MySQL and SAMBA on Mandriva Linux.

I thought I would have a go with Vista since all of my hardware was to specification and Windowz XP seems so plain these days. I nearly made it a month before I threw in the towel on Vista. I can list the issues but I can simplify matters by mentioning just six items that were enough for me to pull the plug.

1) Money = In my opinion Windows Vista exceeds the amount of money that I consider reasonable or fair in both the retail cost and in the cost of ownership. Here you could argue and say that Vista's price is fair and that would be your opinion too. I happen to have money but that happens to be because I'm shrewed and cheap. While I cannot speak for you folks I happen to know that my limit for Windowz happens to be $125.00.

2) Service Pack 3 = Yes, this is subjective but from my viewpoint Windowz Vista is nothing more then an (very expensive) XP service pack. No matter how many times I used it, I never noticed any true benefit or real improvement over XP. I'm using a 3D desktop this very second and it runs circles around Vista and the cost was ZERO. Sure you can talk about the kernel and anything else but to me all of that is Redmond's problem. As I said in #1, I am cheap!

3) Bloated = Like eating a whole pizza when your home alone, Vista is just over the top. I installed Vista, Office 2007 & Avast!, and wound up with over 60 running processes. My XP system on the other desk has at the most 45 running processes. The Windowz Vista setup consumes a great deal of space and takes a long time too.

4) DRM = I will and have managed my own digital rights for years and require no help. I disagree with the premise that digital rights are a necessary evil and refuse to pay Redmond to provide DRM that offers little protection.

5) AACS LA = The makers of High Definition must be HIGH? It is not my problem that Warner Bros, Walt Disney and Redmond are even cheaper then me. I resent paying for AACS to be part of my PC. I resent that AACS forced my TV Tuner Card to go for a rest since it creates something known as an analog hole. Redmond you can kiss my PMP!

6) Stuff = There were several things I did not like about Vista that are minor but still relevant. I don't care for Vista Explorer, Aero didn't do it for me, locations of settings seemed strange (well I was used to XP), slow like a slug, bread crumbs and WMP 11.

I decided to run a Sabayon X64-3.26/XP Pro system and I have been spending more and more time on Linux. I was happy that a majority of the PC games I play have Wine Emulation now. This was the main reason that Linux remained in the server for me all of these years. There is little that I can't do in Linux now.

Consider (if you don't know) that my desktop GUI is a cube that can be spun. When I exit windows they burst in flames "poof" and are gone. Beryl is the bomb relating to 3D desktop environments. I have to admit that my Beryl GUI is way ahead of Vista. I have Firefox and Thunderbird for web and mail and I use them on both Windows and Linux. All multimedia works on my Sabayon setup including HDDVD since HDDVDDecrypter hit Doom 9. I have KOffice (love it) and Open Office (so so) for my word processing needs and while not as feature filled as Office 2007 I'm happy.

Free is better and frankly free is more interesting...

Kisses

Thats wonderful. Now would you quit mentioning me? I want nothing to do with you.

Tell someone who cares HERE DaSickNinja since it is up to you. If you don't want anything to do with me then it is simple DONT POST or REPLY to my posts or threads :!:

Hahahahahahahahahahaha

If you don't want a reaction from me, would it be obvious that you do the adult thing and not even mention me? By doing so you are in effect, asking for whatever comes to you.

@ over 6000 posts I think you would have run out of stuff to say? Guess your a freak?

Oh, hush!

Coming from personal and business perspectives... your arguments are worthless and unjustified. Strictly a matter of opinion and nothing worthy of being noted.

Vista has enhanced security which for businesses is truly a step forward in securing a company. You failed to mention the benefits of Vista's security. That alone makes it very much appealing to businesses.

Anyone who knows anything about OS upgrades knows to let the OS sit for 6 months to a year before you switch to it.
First, there is Alpha testing, then Beta testing. The full release is a full scale Beta testing. People are going to switch to it. People are going to pay for it because people want to pay for new stuff. This is really where the bugs are worked out.

You may not like it.. Personally, I don't use it yet. I'm working with it at work and I find a lot of things I don't like about it. But not being mentally handicapped, I changed the local security policy to adjust to my needs. Now I have no problems with it aside from trying to figure out where things have been moved and adjust to the new interface.

That I didn't care for. But, its a new OS and if it looked the same, I might have the same expectations of it.

DRM won't last. That will come out or will be disabled by user choice.

Price.. how can you justify the price? You buy hardware in the hundreds of dollars. Computer games routinely cost $60 and after 6 months they're worthless. You won't pay the price for the backbone of your system? Cheap is not what you are. You value other things higher and you're biased on what you're willing to pay for. I'm surprised they don't charge a lot more for the OS personally. I'm surprised they don't rent it out to users on a monthly charge or yearly charge and give out updates. Something like Software Assurance.. which I don't know if you're familar with that but its really the best way to go in a business.

You go on to mention using free software in place. Again, your view is biased and you apparently don't understand why free isn't taking off like everyone thinks it should.

Here's why Free isn't good.

When you buy a boxed PC, it probably comes with Windows. Why not a Free OS? Because Free OSs require the users to spend more time learning about their OS than they want to.. they have to invest time into how to make things work. Users have better things to do. I have never run into a non-tech savvy person who has said they liked a free OS better. They're not techies, they don't care about it. They want to do their work, play games, and surf the web.
Windows has a very low learning curve for end-users.
Software makers want users to pay for software. Put out a free OS then games are going to be expected to become free.
Businesses use proprietary software because there is a company they can fall back on to when things fail or go wrong. Its a security thing. Should Microsoft have a huge error and a company goes under because of a flaw in Windows Server 2003 - a company can sue Microsoft because of that.
What would you do against a free software? Nothing. There is no "security blanket" to give someone that oh-so-warm feeling.

A real big deal? Most users at home don't want to install a new OS on their computer. They'll take what they get. So, companies stick to what users know. Less training time, less work, less on the IT staff, LESS LESS LESS.

I have yet to see any figures from a company running free software that states it is more beneficial to use free/open software than running Microsoft. Its harder to recruit IT staff, it takes more time training your end-users, and it requires more man-hours to find solutions to problems that come up.

While considered far more stable, Windows is stable 'enough' to make it a non-issue for the mass majority of companies to continue using it.

And one more thing to note.

If you work for a company that has any level of a software agreement with Microsoft.. Enterprise Licensing, you get all the software your company uses for free at home.

Vista
Office
SQL
Server
etc, etc.

And that is how you get the software free. That ensures that users get the software at home when the company switches over. That keeps everyone on the same page.

The company isn't responsible for that software either. You quit or you're fired, whatever, its on you to remove that software. Not the company, not Microsoft's problem.

That's how you get the software for free. Microsoft makes money off businesses, not off the home users.

Riser, you're reply is like a breath of air from a Porta-Potty! Take your first two sentences, "Coming from personal and business perspectives... your arguments are worthless and unjustified. Strictly a matter of opinion and nothing worthy of being noted." As a moderator here I would expect you're posts to make more sense. Naturally my post above is based on my opinion. Since this is the GENERAL VISTA section it is not much of a surprise that experiences vary. When you say "worthless" that is a personal attack. My comment about the "Vista Brainwashing" stands fast since the majority of articles on Tom's reflect a bias that favors MS!

MS is a MONOPOLY. MS is constantly in court regarding of all things it's being a MONOPOLY. Claiming that MS is good for business because Windows is, "Oh so secure!" must be an attempt on your part at comic relief? Since it is true that MS is a MONOPOLY then nothing they do is valuable for the consumer! I happen to be a consumer Riser and I put a great deal of thought into what I buy.

Vista is not more than a Service Pack and if anything should cost much less. I think the latest MSFT on the ticker shows that other consumers feel the same way. Retail sales have slumped for MSFT and that is not my fault.

It should be mentioned that if you own a large business that MS sends folks out to your offices to find out if you’re using "Open Source" or not! Go figure! If you’re not then they try to make deals like getting a car. By the sound of your post you almost sound like you work or have worked for M$. No matter, I'm FREE, I'm HONEST and I'm accurate.

You support a known and dangerous MONOPOLY and that has been noted.

MS has never made much money on retail sales... OEM and Corporate sales is where they make their money... so this is nothing new and really not all that worthwhile noting. Even people buying Vista outright buy OEM because it's cheaper; so that makes the retail numbers look that much worse.

New computers will be pre-loaded with Vista; not XP. This alone assures market penetration for Vista.

MS has never made much money on retail sales... OEM and Corporate sales is where they make their money... so this is nothing new and really not all that worthwhile noting. Even people buying Vista outright buy OEM because it's cheaper; so that makes the retail numbers look that much worse.

New computers will be pre-loaded with Vista; not XP. This alone assures market penetration for Vista.Ahh good to see you sweetheart! It's funny but from what I know about you, you don't work for MS. It is IRONIC that one of the M$ CEOs named Steve Balmer said, "But people have to understand that some of the revenue forecasts I've seen out there for Windows Vista in fiscal year 2008 are overly aggressive." There is much more and you can read it Here, Here and Here.

Than as you say, "New computers will be pre-loaded with Vista; not XP. This alone assures market penetration for Vista." This alone prooves that the MS vs DOJ MONOPOLY TRIALS meant nothing to MS who continues to force their software on anyone who gets a PC. If you want to use Linux none of the HD features will work at all!

Zoron,

to bad the department of transportation has banned any upgrade to vista since it is to expensive and may invalidate some of there existing software due to lack of compatibility. It only involves tens of thousands of computer --- glad that microsoft makes there money in oem and corporate sales.

If you posts are based on opinion and not on fact, how do you expect anyone to take you seriously?

MS has never made much money on retail sales... OEM and Corporate sales is where they make their money... so this is nothing new and really not all that worthwhile noting. Even people buying Vista outright buy OEM because it's cheaper; so that makes the retail numbers look that much worse.

New computers will be pre-loaded with Vista; not XP. This alone assures market penetration for Vista.Ahh good to see you sweetheart! It's funny but from what I know about you, you don't work for MS. It is IRONIC that one of the M$ CEOs named Steve Balmer said, "But people have to understand that some of the revenue forecasts I've seen out there for Windows Vista in fiscal year 2008 are overly aggressive." There is much more and you can read it Here, Here and Here.

Than as you say, "New computers will be pre-loaded with Vista; not XP. This alone assures market penetration for Vista." This alone prooves that the MS vs DOJ MONOPOLY TRIALS meant nothing to MS who continues to force their software on anyone who gets a PC. If you want to use Linux none of the HD features will work at all!

The only way M$ is going to keeps its monopoly is to force people into buying (new PC). Christopher Newport University, one of the Colleges I attended uses Linux only. Each student takes one semester of Computer 101 to get a feel of the OS. That was ten years ago, now Linux is all GUI and much easier; no wonder M$ is trying to force Vista… Linux is no doubt making ground IMO

Corporations and business (especially anything government related) are slow to upgrade. You only have to look at the fact that some banks are still using Windows 95 on their workstations. Some are using Windows 2000, but I have yet to see any bank deploy even Windows XP; let alone Vista.

Deploying a new OS takes time... a LOT of time. Especially when you cling to old applications that still require DOS windows. Ensuring these systems will work with a minimum of fuss and downtime is expensive. This is true of ANY new OS deployment... be it Vista, XP or 2000.

Corporate and OEM sales are still Microsoft's bread and butter; regardless of whether or not the Department of Transportation upgrades to Vista. They are but a single entity and certainly not the majority.

You can call Microsoft a monopoly, I'll give you that. They are not a monopoly by choice.

Its due to a sheer lack of competitors. Linux is out there but lacks the backing of a company. Its not as convenient for people to switch to as its made out to be.

Linux has only recently come out as an OS system that would be available to everyone. I do believe MS even started working with Linux to push its distribution out more and help them out.

I don't know where you get your information. You say your opinion and then treat it as fact to everyone.

Microsoft has never made its money off selling to home users. Its a business software that has filtered to consumers. People had computers in work before their home. Companies upgrade more often than the home users. Business is where the money is.

I'm sorry that you can't understand this. Its very simple. When I look at Vista, I look at how it effects the average consumer and how it effects the business. I don't look at how it effects someone who is more tech savvy. Why is this? Because a vast majority of the people using computers aren't tech savvy. Thus, my perspective is on their point of view.

Anyhow who works in IT understands this concept. We make things simplier for the average person so they don't need to know as much about computers. In this, you get the next progressive step in OSs: Vista.

I don't bash Linux. I don't see it as a feasible solution because the average user has problems with it.

Same thing happened with XP coming out. A lot of people said it wasn't that much better than 2000. A year later, everyone was raving about it.

You sound like the typical person described in any technology book. You're afraid of change, you're resistant to it and rely on the old to continue working on the new. In time, I promise you will become a Vista user and it will grow on you.

Vista is here to stay. Either you adapt or you fall behind.