Before I shell out my hard earned money, I decided to determine if I should go with an upgrade disk, or a full version of Vista. I spent the morning tied up chatting with Microsoft MVPs, the know it alls. Right from the horse's (you know what I mean!)

After slumming all day at the Vista Blogs within Microsoft I learned:

To summarize: It has been stated that upgrade DVDs are non-bootable to force the upgrade to be initiated from within the qualifying upgrade-from product.
If it is true that this change in technique (from XP etc.) has been adopted,
the following appear to be true with the Upgrade SKUs:

1 - There is no possible upgrade path from 32-bit existing product to 64-bit
Vista even though the (advertised) right to make that upgrade has been
purchased.

2- Although Complete PC Backups may be performed, there is no way to perform
a restore from any of those backups.

3- There is no way to perform a "Repair" install of the Vista OS

4- There is no way to perform other "Repair" type operations (equivalent of
XP repair console)

5 - There is no way to perform a completely clean install of Vista

So be ready to shell out $400.00 for a FULL copy of Vista Ultimate. If you go with an upgrade disk, you probably will regret it. So, open your wallet, and bend over, its Vista! Coming soon to a nightmare near you.

So far, this is what I know:

If you are using an Upgrade Edition you would have to have a way to target
an empty partition or overwrite the active partition to do a Custom install
(all Vista installations are "clean" installs of the OS now). If Custom
Install is not available or greyed out then you would only be able to
upgrade the running OS from which you launched Setup. This is one of the
things we hope will be clarified soon. With an XP Upgrade cd if you start
Setup from the desktop you can only upgrade the current system. You cannot
do a clean install. Vista will most likely work that way also. It all
comes down to whether or not a Vista Upgrade dvd is bootable or not.

Yes, Microsoft recommends using Image backup solutions like Acronis with
upgraded systems (especially with one upgraded via Anytime Upgrade) to
protect your investment. You will be able to restore such an image backup.

If people buy an upgrade version of Vista, and can only upgrade the existing operating system, and discover the upgrade was corrupt due to viruses or whatever, they will be forced to reinstall and activate XP, then upgrade again?!? No clean install possible. The idea behind an upgrade has always been if you are a previous owner, you are receiving a discount as a long time user. I predict this apparent change will alienate the enthusiast community.

This is totally unfair, and certainly seems extremely unfriendly towards customers. My XP Professional upgrade disk allows me a clean install, it is bootable, and has diagnostics on it. Why does Vista not?

This is incredibly petty of Microsoft. It’s a mistake. The company will definitely suffer serious repercussions if not corrected. It is simply bad public relations. If Vista were a new movie in theatres that bombed on it’s initial release, they would term it ‘box office poison’. If we can guide and help Microsoft to see reality, maybe it’s not too late to avert disaster.

Reasonable compromise: 1) Make the upgrade disk bootable to utilities ONLY. 2) Force installation start from activated XP, BUT allow the option to have the VISTA install format the drive and install clean after verifying the genuine copy of XP.

None of the people here have even LOOKED at my postings here...I find this very disturbing. They will notice if they foolishly buy a so called upgrade disk to Vista. QUOTE: 'The future ain't what it used to be'. UNQUOTE.

starwhite, this particular thread has been viewed 43 times, so people are reading. Forget about the upgrade, just get the OEM version like everyone else here does. On the other hand you deserve praise for taking on this corporate behemoth. Not that Microsoft will listen...their own creaking bureaucracy will prevent them from that. Sure, some will listen but they will be (mostly) powerless to act. Don't think for a moment that Steve Ballmer cares what any of us thinks. Gates is different but he's already looking forward to retirement and doing good things for humanity. He doesn't want to do any more of the dirty work that got him where he is. Like Pontius Pilate, he will just wash his hands and move on to something else, hoping he can accumulate enough karma points to undo the damage his monopolistic company has inflicted. That's still a lot better than Ballmer. Me? I'm already looking beyond Microsoft. I'll get Vista OEM but not Office and most certainly not that OneCare crap. And none of the Media Center crap either. If I want digital media I'll go to third parties. Even though Vista Ultimate includes the media crap, the RTM build gives you the option not to install MC. And Zune? Don't make me laugh. It doesn't even work with Vista. OpenGL is still dodgy although I expect the GPU vendors will eventually produce decent drivers. Watch out for Intel, Apple and Linux. Intel open-sourced the drivers for the GMA X3000 and Apple is reported to have done wonders with the lowly GMA 950 on the mini and macbooks. And if Apple decides to sell its OS and apps to "the rest of us", God knows what would happen.

I know this sounds like a whole lot of sour grapes and it probably is. But as anybody here knows I don't engage in the childish Apple bashing that many here enjoy and have been seriously considering switching. Combined with the sour grapes and general disgust with all things Microsoft, that gives me enough motive to want to change platforms. Now if only Apple sold a decent single socket desktop machine that is not an AIO ...

So, if MS had always done this, and you had always bought an upgrade disk....

A reinstall would require:

1. Create 2GB FAT16 C: partition
2. Install MS-DOS 6.22.
3. Install WFWG 3.11
4. Upgrade to Win95
5. Upgrade to Win98
6. Upgrade to WinME.
7. Convert drive to FAT32.
8. Use 3rd party utility to extend the partition to the size of the volume. Additional costs involved here, but Vista isnt going to fit in 2GB so this isnt optional.
9. Upgrade to WinXP.
10. Convert drive to NTFS.
11. Upgrade to Vista.

Wow that would take hours!!!

I know this isn't the case right now, but if they have started this policy with Vista it will no doubt continue with future versions, and you will be doing an equivalent of this in 10 years time

Yeah, which is why I recommended that he purchase the OEM version and forget about Microsoft's schemes.

[quote="darkstar782"]So, if MS had always done this, and you had always bought an upgrade disk....

A reinstall would require:

1. Create 2GB FAT16 C: partition
2. Install MS-DOS 6.22.
3. Install WFWG 3.11
4. Upgrade to Win95
5. Upgrade to Win98
6. Upgrade to WinME.
7. Convert drive to FAT32.
8. Use 3rd party utility to extend the partition to the size of the volume. Additional costs involved here, but Vista isnt going to fit in 2GB so this isnt optional.
9. Upgrade to WinXP.
10. Convert drive to NTFS.
11. Upgrade to Vista.

quote]

Lol that is hilarious dude, and also extremely scary, how retarded is MS if that is truly the case, I dont want to believe it right now but if it is true microsoft is basically screwing all the people who are getting upgrade coupons from new purchases leading up to christmas.

How can any OS Disc not be bootable and able to do a clean install of itself, that is a pharce or is it farce?? i dunno but u know what im saying i think