We see what the new generation of AGP cards can do for an Athlon 64 3400 .

And I see how bad a purchase I made.. when I bought my comp and the video card.. :x

Comment was made on the second page that the Sapphire was the only 512MB X1950Pro AGP card available you were aware of. HIS offers at least four X1950Pro AGPs; they offer 256MB and 512MB in both standard and their IceQ3 Turbo (overclocked) versions. NewEgg is currently offering all but the 512 Turbo flavors...apparently sold out of the 512MB IceQ3 quickly (I got lucky!)

Great article!!

Good info and review. You explained the results well imo, many "laymen" should be able to understand exactly what you got from the results. I find in a lot of articles reviewers assume a little too much expertise on the part of the reader. I have several friends who are into gaming yet when I start waxing all technical on specs etc. they give me the "deer in headlights" stares lol.

I am curious of one thing. Since you've had quite a bit of review time with the Sapphire card now, have you experienced any of the problems others have been talking about? I recently installed one myself and it plays great but for one thing. I get occasional lockups. Have to hard reboot to get system back, its usually accompanied by a odd tone through my headset.

I have a feeling I may have damaged my sound card or possibly my brand new power supply but don't have an extra sound card or PSU thats rated high enough for the card. Why I think this is I heard an odd sound when I first booted after install. Like the speaker made a "pop" for a sec then was ok.

Got off on a tangent sorry. Just somewhat hoping it IS the GPU cause it would be easier to RMA.

Anyways, just curious if you had any problems with these cards as it seems to be more the norm rather than the exception.

Talon,

I've heard about a lot of issues also with the X1950 AGPs; I was afraid I might be wasting the $300 entry fee I paid. For what its worth, I know the Accelero X2 cooler has been updated with the addition of a VRM heat sink plate, the easiest way to get one is probably off ebay (search under items for sale by seller "arctic-bid" ).

I got my X1950 2 days ago, I tested it yesterday in a slug system and so far it has been great, but I did notice the fan settings are not nearly as aggressive as I would like, at least according to ATI Tray Tools. This might be unique, however, to the BIOS in the HIS cards--I'm not sure. If you're going to use such a utility, forget ATItools for now. That was always my favorite, but it does not currently support the X1950...

Sorry I can't be more help...

I know this keeps getting brought up but it is making more and more sense just to ditch that AGP motherboard.

There are plenty of socket 939 motherboards out there with *PCI express* for <$60. Getting one of those means 939 AMD64 owners can move their CPU and DDR (1) RAM over. They are then free to buy the upcoming 8600 series nvidia cards for best performancerice, directx10 support and HDCP support.

I think $60 on a MB and $130-$200 on a 8600 PCIe series card is money much better spent than $150-$250 on an AGP card in this review.

Nice but I would like to see a part 3 with them adding some dual core cpu's to the mix. There are a few agp mother boards that will run dual core amd and intell.

I guess my question to everyone is this: gpu manufacturers are phasing out AGP, with only a couple popping up here and there to 'keep the drive alive'. I know its expensive to upgrade components...you basically have to revamp your entire box. But, if you are planning on playing games and such and need the hardware to do so, maybe its time to update to PCI-e. None of the high end gpu's from either end of the table are making it into AGP; only adaptations of mid-range gpu's. I see the idea of just upgrading your card with a $250-$300 top of the AGP hill card will run well on games now and past. But, at the same time, that $250-$300 will get you a smokin' hot PCI-e card that will blow it out of the water. I guess it all comes down to priorities and money for each consumer. I took the leap and have been very happy, but not everyone may be ready to do so...so I understand.

This is actually a reply to both rubix_1011 and nemi_PC. You guys are assuming far too many things here.

We’ll start a generalization first (you seem to be in that mode), then we'll cover my situation next. First off, as the article noted, even in the highest end AGP cards, there is essentially no penalty for AGP. If the x1950Pro is enough card for you, it is foolish to go out and spend a bunch of money to upgrade to a PCIe system just for the sake of having a PCIe system. An AGP version of any particular card many be a bit more than the PCIe, but it’s not that bit of a hit in the whole scheme of things. Likewise, is is also probably foolish to "upgrade" from AGP to PCIe and stay at skt 939, since eventually you'll have to replace all that stuff, too.

My personal feeling is that if you're going to make the switch from 939/DDR/AGP to (775 or AM2)/DDR2/PCIe, save your coin and do it all at once. None of that stuff is getting more expensive in the long-term.

As for the DX10 thing, people keep forgetting that DX10 is for Vista, something I have no intention of converting to in the next couple of years. No typical working application will require it for a long time. Even DX10 supported games aren't going to be the norm for quite a while.


Now, for my own personal situation. I have been accumulating pieces/parts for the last few months and was about to put together:

Antec Nine Hundred case
OCZ Powerstream 520W (but may use a PC P&C TurboCool 510 I have instead)
MSI K8N Neo2 Platinum (skt 939)
AMD 64 X2 4400 (plan to do a little OC)
2 X 1GB OCZ PC3200 Platinum Ed.
Creative X-Fi ExtremeMusic
...and an X850XT from another system I have.

I've had the motherboard for nearly a year now, and the X850XT was always meant for it. I am not a gamer but I do CAD and some graphics work, and I love screen "Real Estate." I'd been watching for a SONY SDM-P234, but the supply dried up when I blinked. Meanwhile, I was offered a NIB Dell 3007FPW, with warranty, for $750. Couldn't turn it down!

Unfortunately (or perhaps, fortunately), native resolution on the 3007 is 2560 X 1600, requiring a dual-link DVI connection (not to be confused with dual DVI). Almost all DL video cards are PCIe--few available as AGP. I was planning on going to C2D later this year, once the Quads were more available (driving the C2D prices down), and going to an R600 class video card then (all that stuff is DL). Problem is all this is either bleeding-edge or not even available yet. If I did it right now, I'd opt for an nVidia 8800GTS, but that is strictly a PCIe and it'd drive a COMPLETE system upgrade I am not ready to pay for (mobo, C2D, DDR2, PCIe video). Remember, 8800GTS starts at $375 currently.

I stumbled on the HIS X1950PRO IceQ3 512MB Turbo card at NewEgg for $300. The non-turbo 512 was $275, and the good cooler used on the Turbo version is easily worth the extra $25, even if it didn't clock any faster (Turbo runs @ 620/1480 vs. 575/1380 non-Turbo). I went with the 512MB because of the amount of pixels I am driving, and it was only $50 more than the Turbo 256MB version.

Anyway, bottom line is that I needed this much card to run the monitor, the price to upgrade to this card was less than the PCIe card I would have chosen (to say nothing of the requisite associated hardware), and I've bought myself at least 6-10 months of time. Everybody's situation is different, but I feel high-end AGP stuff will be a viable market for another year or two.

I haven't experienced a single hiccup with the Sapphire X1950 PRO 512mb.

I suspect the card is power hungry though, I have a good PSU but I would be wary of using the thing with anything less. That's just my guess as to what might be causing the trouble though, I have no evidence or anything.

Believe me, I know that everyone's situation is different. That's why I didn't want to come off like it was a 'must do' change. Depending upon each person, it may or may not be a viable option.

I posted this before:

There are zillions of p4/athlons/whatevers with agp slots, if they keep the supply constrained, as they are like to do. You can dump these x1950pro agp cards on ebay in a year, and get most (if not all) of your money back.

I agree with your statement above *for a complete new rig*, but I was focusing on the scenario of upgrading of DDR + 939 machine to be a faster gaming PC for the best performancerice while staying under ~$250, just like the article.

Ignoring DirectX10 and HDCP , my suggested route (probably) offers them the best directX9 gaming performance for ~ $200, of course I can't say for 100% as I have not seen 8600 benchmarks, but it is looking positive.

The other plus point is they get as a "bonus" DriectX10 and HDCP that they have the choice to use in the future.

DX10 will be a while before everything catches up. I know Vista is out, and so are some DX10 cards, but 98% of everyone are still running DX9. Safe to say that you will be fine as long as you can live with your framerates. I have a machine running a Ti4600 right now...still chugs along.

I understand where you where going, but the mobos available for the price you quote aren't ones I would want or recommend. Further, when another upgrade becomes necessary, you are upgrading mobo/CPU/RAM, and that is half of the system in terms of price. Might as well save up a bit, while letting prices drop, and pop for the whole thing. Then you also have a complete leftover you can peddle off or part out.

Again, that is only my opinion, and everyboby's situtation is different, both in terms of need and finances.

I think everybody should drop $10,000 on a new PC like the guy in the forums last couple weeks. I have no idea why he even threw out the idea...attempt at envy, or inviting mockery?

This two part AGP review is very clear to a lot of thought: AGP is still viable given certain CPUs. Two years ago, the "experts" all said dump your AGP platform, there's no reason to stay with your setup...and now they are swallowing their pride and admitting that there are high end cards on AGP and are just fine with no decided difference with PCIe results.

I would like to see a top contender from the last round, say ATI X850XTpe, get thrown into the mix.

The you could see which card may be a better match.

well spoken, good stuff.