Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsnt.setup (More info?)

Our company is writing some software which we have to test
on several versions of Windows. I'm bulding a computer
w/removable HDDs, one of which will have NT. After going
through the System Config check, Setup stops and displays a
message telling me it's finding 0kB of low memory, 512kB is
required.

ECS PM800-M2 mainboard
P4 Celeron 2.66GHz
512MB RAM

Don't know what low memory is. If it's CPU onboard cache,
it's true that the Celly doesn't have 512k, but it has 256
(not zero). Thing is, did any CPU have 512k when NT4.0 was
current? Help...

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsnt.setup (More info?)

Dave M wrote:

> Our company is writing some software which we have to test on several
> versions of Windows. I'm bulding a computer w/removable HDDs, one of
> which will have NT. After going through the System Config check, Setup
> stops and displays a message telling me it's finding 0kB of low memory,
> 512kB is required.
>
> ECS PM800-M2 mainboard
> P4 Celeron 2.66GHz
> 512MB RAM
>
> Don't know what low memory is. If it's CPU onboard cache, it's true
> that the Celly doesn't have 512k, but it has 256 (not zero). Thing is,
> did any CPU have 512k when NT4.0 was current? Help...

Set up Windows NT by either booting off its installation
cdrom or from the 3 setup floppy diskettes that come with
Windows NT or created from the installation cdrom. It seems
like Windows NT set up is being attempted from a DOS prompt
form an OS already running in the computer.

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsnt.setup (More info?)

> Set up Windows NT by either booting off its installation
> cdrom

That's what I'm doing. This is a fresh install on a new
(blank) HDD. Could this be a formatting/partitioning issue?
Doesn't NT setup have that ability?




or from the 3 setup floppy diskettes that come with
> Windows NT or created from the installation cdrom. It seems
> like Windows NT set up is being attempted from a DOS prompt
> form an OS already running in the computer.
>

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsnt.setup (More info?)

Dave M wrote:
>> Set up Windows NT by either booting off its installation
>> cdrom
>
> That's what I'm doing. This is a fresh install on a new
> (blank) HDD. Could this be a formatting/partitioning issue?
> Doesn't NT setup have that ability?

Sounds as if the drivers for the CDRom drive were clogging up memory.

Try to do the old-fashioned 3-floppy-install!

Helmut
--
All typos © My Knotty Fingers Ltd. Capacity Dept.

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsnt.setup (More info?)

> Try to do the old-fashioned 3-floppy-install!

Only have a CD. What exactly is "low memory" anyway?

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsnt.setup (More info?)

Dave M wrote:

>> Try to do the old-fashioned 3-floppy-install!
>
>
> Only have a CD. What exactly is "low memory" anyway?

IIRC, "low memory" refers to computer memory in the 0-640 KB
range. Just how is the setup being run? The computer should be
booted cleanly, from either the Windows NT cdrom or from the 3
Windows NT setup diskettes. They have the proper [low] memory
management drivers to insure that there is adequate (512-640 KB
of) memory to execute the setup.

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsnt.setup (More info?)

It's a new computer (P4, 512MB RAM) w/removable HDDs, one of
which is for NT. I've got a clean HDD as primary master, CD
as pri slave (This is the only way it will run. Configured
as HDD as pri mast, CD as sec master, NT setup wouldn't run
properly). I'm booting from the NT CD.


> IIRC, "low memory" refers to computer memory in the 0-640 KB
> range. Just how is the setup being run? The computer should be
> booted cleanly, from either the Windows NT cdrom or from the 3
> Windows NT setup diskettes. They have the proper [low] memory
> management drivers to insure that there is adequate (512-640 KB
> of) memory to execute the setup.

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsnt.setup (More info?)

Dave M wrote:
> It's a new computer (P4, 512MB RAM) w/removable HDDs, one of which is
> for NT. I've got a clean HDD as primary master, CD as pri slave (This
> is the only way it will run. Configured as HDD as pri mast, CD as sec
> master, NT setup wouldn't run properly). I'm booting from the NT CD.
>

You are failing to comprehend the meaning of "low memory".
This is a definition of "low memory":

"In DOS systems, the first 640K of memory. This portion of
memory is reserved for applications, device drivers, and
memory-resident programs (TSRs). Low memory is also called
conventional memory."

In physical values, the first 640 KB of memory comprises
"low memory". Of this amount, NT setup, which is primarily
a DOS operation, requires at least 512 KB of the 640 KB of
conventional memory. The overhead on conventional memory
to run computer ops, such as installing NT, should not be
exceeding 128 KB at the most. Setup of NT is predicated on
at least 512 KB (of the 640 KB) being available when the
relevant system files for setup are loaded into high memory.

One must really determine why this particular system's
overhead is exceeding 128 KB of overhead. Are there special
drivers in use that are occupying low memory? Anything running
in the background related to the chipset or onboard devices?
Very strange occurrence...never personally seen it happen with
any NT, Windows 2000 or XP installation when initiated from
their installation cdroms or setup diskettes.

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsnt.setup (More info?)

> You are failing to comprehend the meaning of "low memory".

I know. I thought I made that clear in the subject.

> In physical values, the first 640 KB of memory comprises
> "low memory".

OK, but which physical memory? Is 640 KB of RAM is being
used as low memory? Because there's also a cache of
physical mem in the CPU (in this case, since it's a P4
Celeron, 256 KB). Or os there some other bit of physical
memory? Or is 512 MB too much for NT to see, so it doesn't
see any of it?





Of this amount, NT setup, which is primarily
> a DOS operation, requires at least 512 KB of the 640 KB of
> conventional memory. The overhead on conventional memory
> to run computer ops, such as installing NT, should not be
> exceeding 128 KB at the most. Setup of NT is predicated on
> at least 512 KB (of the 640 KB) being available when the
> relevant system files for setup are loaded into high memory.
>
> One must really determine why this particular system's
> overhead is exceeding 128 KB of overhead. Are there special
> drivers in use that are occupying low memory? Anything running
> in the background related to the chipset or onboard devices?
> Very strange occurrence...never personally seen it happen with
> any NT, Windows 2000 or XP installation when initiated from
> their installation cdroms or setup diskettes.

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsnt.setup (More info?)

Dave M wrote:
>> You are failing to comprehend the meaning of "low memory".
>
>
> I know. I thought I made that clear in the subject.
>
>> In physical values, the first 640 KB of memory comprises
>> "low memory".
>
>
> OK, but which physical memory? Is 640 KB of RAM is being used as low
> memory? Because there's also a cache of physical mem in the CPU (in
> this case, since it's a P4 Celeron, 256 KB). Or os there some other bit
> of physical memory? Or is 512 MB too much for NT to see, so it doesn't
> see any of it?

Conventional memory is not cache (L2) memory in the CPU.
Conventional memory is part of the installed RAM set. And
without memory managers, DOS only works with the first
640 KB. (We all learned about this in the DOS days, before
the advent of extended, expanded and high memory managers
to utilize memory above 640 KB.)

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsnt.setup (More info?)

> Conventional memory is part of the installed RAM set. And
> without memory managers, DOS only works with the first
> 640 KB.

OK, so why isn't NT seeing anything?

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsnt.setup (More info?)

Dave M wrote:
>> Conventional memory is part of the installed RAM set. And
>> without memory managers, DOS only works with the first
>> 640 KB.
>
>
> OK, so why isn't NT seeing anything?

It is in the message. All of the low memory, at least 512 KB,
is being used by the system. NT setup is reporting that there
isn't enough low [or conventional] memory that is free for the
loading of setup.exe (or whatever is the executable to start NT
installation).

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsnt.setup (More info?)

> It is in the message. All of the low memory, at least 512 KB,
> is being used by the system.

But why would that be? NT Setup is loading any drivers
necessary to run the CD, so those shouldn't be the problem,
right? Are you saying that the motherboard itself might be
using up low memory? I mean, no motherboard drivers or
anything like that have been installed.

Thanks for sticking w/me on this.

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsnt.setup (More info?)

Dave M wrote:
>> It is in the message. All of the low memory, at least 512 KB,
>> is being used by the system.
>
>
> But why would that be? NT Setup is loading any drivers necessary to run
> the CD, so those shouldn't be the problem, right? Are you saying that
> the motherboard itself might be using up low memory? I mean, no
> motherboard drivers or anything like that have been installed.
>
> Thanks for sticking w/me on this.

Sure about that? I am not familiar with this system. IOW,
are you starting with a clean hard drive and with the system
configured through bios setup to run at its default settings?
Microsoft has already calculated that computer system overhead
from booting off the NT cdrom or NT setup diskettes is less
than 128 KB (640 KB minus 128 KB = 512 KB). Any reduction in
the 640 KB low memory may be attributed to memory released for
use by the video and other resources. Also in bios setup, is the
computer configured for 640 KB base memory vs. a lower amount,
such as 512 KB? (Just remembered about this possibility.)

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsnt.setup (More info?)

hmm, weird.

if you boot from MS-DOS system floppy (go to www.bootdisk.com for image if
you have not any) and enter "MEM" command, what is the total amount of
memory listed?

"Dave M" <user@domain.invalid> píse v diskusním príspevku
news:#LJonscqFHA.2876@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> Our company is writing some software which we have to test
> on several versions of Windows. I'm bulding a computer
> w/removable HDDs, one of which will have NT. After going
> through the System Config check, Setup stops and displays a
> message telling me it's finding 0kB of low memory, 512kB is
> required.
>
> ECS PM800-M2 mainboard
> P4 Celeron 2.66GHz
> 512MB RAM
>
> Don't know what low memory is. If it's CPU onboard cache,
> it's true that the Celly doesn't have 512k, but it has 256
> (not zero). Thing is, did any CPU have 512k when NT4.0 was
> current? Help...