Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsme.general (More info?)

Is there any way of "prioritizong" or "ordering" the execution of the
Start-Up Task list in WinMe?

My Firewall, which is on the start-up list, only comes in AFTER my
Clock Synchronizer. In the same way some "rogue" task could "get in"
before the firewall becomes operational - I have an "always-on"
wireless LAN connection to the Internet.

Can anyone give a light on this situation?

TIA

--
paulo

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsme.general (More info?)

Unfortunately the applications launched via the various registry run keys
are launched synchronously rather than sequentially. I would suggest that
you perhaps consider moving the launch point for your Clock Synchroniser
to perhaps the Programs | Startup folder.as this is I think the last of
the various startup locations accessed in the startup process.

You may want to have a look at KB 179365 - "INFO: Run, RunOnce,
RunServices, RunServicesOnce and Startup"
(http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=179365).
--
Mike Maltby MS-MVP
mike.maltby@gmail.com


paulo_v@coldmail.com <paulo_v@coldmail.com> wrote:

> Is there any way of "prioritizong" or "ordering" the execution of the
> Start-Up Task list in WinMe?
>
> My Firewall, which is on the start-up list, only comes in AFTER my
> Clock Synchronizer. In the same way some "rogue" task could "get in"
> before the firewall becomes operational - I have an "always-on"
> wireless LAN connection to the Internet.
>
> Can anyone give a light on this situation?
>
> TIA

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsme.general (More info?)

On Sat, 2 Jul 2005 18:04:02 +0100, "Mike M" <No_Spam@Corned_Beef.Only>
wrote:

>Unfortunately the applications launched via the various registry run keys
>are launched synchronously rather than sequentially. I would suggest that
>you perhaps consider moving the launch point for your Clock Synchroniser
>to perhaps the Programs | Startup folder.as this is I think the last of
>the various startup locations accessed in the startup process.
>
>You may want to have a look at KB 179365 - "INFO: Run, RunOnce,
>RunServices, RunServicesOnce and Startup"
>(http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=179365).

Thanks Mike, but it's NOT the Clocker that worries me. It's the fact
that if the Clocker can get in before the firewall becomes operative
then so too could some other "rogue" task that installs itself
unanounced in the start-up lists. :-(

I've tested this supposition by removing the Clocker's permission for
accessing the Internet then restarting. The Clocker managed to
synchronize thru NTP BEFORE the firewall became operative :-(

I was just trying to see if I could close what appears, to me, to be a
loophole.

Such is life! :-((((

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsme.general (More info?)

Two possible solutions:
a) Connect to the net through a router modem where the firewall will be up
at all times,
b) Move to XP where I believe the built in SP2 firewall loads first even
if it later exits because the user is using a third party software
firewall.
--
Mike Maltby MS-MVP
mike.maltby@gmail.com

..
paulo_v@coldmail.com <paulo_v@coldmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks Mike, but it's NOT the Clocker that worries me. It's the fact
> that if the Clocker can get in before the firewall becomes operative
> then so too could some other "rogue" task that installs itself
> unanounced in the start-up lists. :-(
>
> I've tested this supposition by removing the Clocker's permission for
> accessing the Internet then restarting. The Clocker managed to
> synchronize thru NTP BEFORE the firewall became operative :-(
>
> I was just trying to see if I could close what appears, to me, to be a
> loophole.
>
> Such is life! :-((((

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsme.general (More info?)

On Sat, 2 Jul 2005 18:58:06 +0100, "Mike M" <No_Spam@Corned_Beef.Only>
wrote:

>Two possible solutions:
>a) Connect to the net through a router modem where the firewall will be up
>at all times,

not feasible, I'm afraid :-(

>b) Move to XP

God forbid!

> where I believe the built in SP2 firewall loads first even
>if it later exits because the user is using a third party software
>firewall.

Thanks anyway.
It was worth asking just to see if there WAS a simple solution.
There ain't - so I'll just have to learn to live with my paranoia :-(

Be good, be safe - use protection, always! :-)

--
paulo

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsme.general (More info?)

paulo_v@coldmail.com wrote:
> On Sat, 2 Jul 2005 18:58:06 +0100, "Mike M" <No_Spam@Corned_Beef.Only>
> wrote:
>
>
>>Two possible solutions:
>>a) Connect to the net through a router modem where the firewall will be up
>>at all times,
>
>
> not feasible, I'm afraid :-(
>
>
>>b) Move to XP
>
>
> God forbid!
>
>
>>where I believe the built in SP2 firewall loads first even
>>if it later exits because the user is using a third party software
>>firewall.
>
>
> Thanks anyway.
> It was worth asking just to see if there WAS a simple solution.
> There ain't -

ain't? why not just go into the Registry and switch the keys order
around (okay that ain't a "just" but doesn't sound terribly complicated)


Rick



> so I'll just have to learn to live with my paranoia :-(
>
> Be good, be safe - use protection, always! :-)
>
> --
> paulo

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsme.general (More info?)

Rick T <plinnane3REMOVE@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote:

> ain't? why not just go into the Registry and switch the keys order
> around (okay that ain't a "just" but doesn't sound terribly
> complicated)

Rich,

This is what I was in effect suggesting in my first reply and why I
included a reference to KB179365. In other words I would have thought
that launching the firewall as a service using an entry in
HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\RunServices and then the
clock synchronisation program or anything else using an entry in the
HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Run key or even later using
a shortcut in the Startup folder.

However, as you can see by reading 179365, all RunService entries run
synchronously which means that a malicious application launched using an
entry in the RunServices key stands a chance of accessing the net before
the firewall has been loaded although to be honest I'm not a network guy
so have no idea as to how much of the IP stack has been loaded at that
time allowing such access to proceed.
--
Mike Maltby MS-MVP
mike.maltby@gmail.com

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsme.general (More info?)

On Sat, 2 Jul 2005 20:10:35 +0100, "Mike M" <No_Spam@Corned_Beef.Only>
wrote:

>Rick T <plinnane3REMOVE@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> ain't? why not just go into the Registry and switch the keys order
>> around (okay that ain't a "just" but doesn't sound terribly
>> complicated)
>
>Rich,
>
>This is what I was in effect suggesting in my first reply and why I
>included a reference to KB179365. In other words I would have thought
>that launching the firewall as a service using an entry in
>HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\RunServices and then the
>clock synchronisation program or anything else using an entry in the
>HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Run key or even later using
>a shortcut in the Startup folder.
>
>However, as you can see by reading 179365, all RunService entries run
>synchronously which means that a malicious application launched using an
>entry in the RunServices key stands a chance of accessing the net before
>the firewall has been loaded although to be honest I'm not a network guy
>so have no idea as to how much of the IP stack has been loaded at that
>time allowing such access to proceed.


That's what I had already tried here :-(

The only items in RunServices are my firewalI, SysRestore and my
Anti-Virus.
The "rest", including the clocker, are in Run.

But, as you say, a malicious app COULD set itself up at the beginning
of the RunServices and "phone home" BEFORE the firewall comes up.

Do you know if RunServicesOnce gets a priority over RunServices?
If so I could put the firewall in RSOnce and have a little .REG in
StartUp to put it back every time.


--
paulo

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsme.general (More info?)

paulo_v@coldmail.com <paulo_v@coldmail.com> wrote:

> That's what I had already tried here :-(
>
> The only items in RunServices are my firewalI, SysRestore and my
> Anti-Virus.
> The "rest", including the clocker, are in Run.
>
> But, as you say, a malicious app COULD set itself up at the beginning
> of the RunServices and "phone home" BEFORE the firewall comes up.
>
> Do you know if RunServicesOnce gets a priority over RunServices?
> If so I could put the firewall in RSOnce and have a little .REG in
> StartUp to put it back every time.

In my first post I suggested that you have a look at KB179365 and then
referred again to that article in my reply to Rich. Please read it as it
does explain what I have been trying to say even if I inadvertently typed
synchronously when I mean to type asynchronously.

[Quote]
With the exception of the HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\...\RunOnce key, all keys and
their entries are loaded asynchronously. Therefore, all entries in the
RunServices and RunServicesOnce keys can potentially run at the same time.

Entries in the HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\...\RunOnce key are loaded synchronously
in an undefined order.

Because the HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\...\RunOnce key is loaded synchronously,
all of its entries must finish loading before the
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\...\Run, HKEY_CURRENT_USER\...\Run,
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\...\RunOnce, and Startup Folder entries can be loaded.
--
Mike Maltby MS-MVP
mike.maltby@gmail.com

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsme.general (More info?)

On Sat, 2 Jul 2005 21:10:32 +0100, "Mike M" <No_Spam@Corned_Beef.Only>
wrote:

>paulo_v@coldmail.com <paulo_v@coldmail.com> wrote:
>
>> That's what I had already tried here :-(
>>
>> The only items in RunServices are my firewalI, SysRestore and my
>> Anti-Virus.
>> The "rest", including the clocker, are in Run.
>>
>> But, as you say, a malicious app COULD set itself up at the beginning
>> of the RunServices and "phone home" BEFORE the firewall comes up.
>>
>> Do you know if RunServicesOnce gets a priority over RunServices?
>> If so I could put the firewall in RSOnce and have a little .REG in
>> StartUp to put it back every time.
>
>In my first post I suggested that you have a look at KB179365 and then
>referred again to that article in my reply to Rich. Please read it as it
>does explain what I have been trying to say even if I inadvertently typed
>synchronously when I mean to type asynchronously.
>
I DID wonder about that but as English is not my language I refrained
from commenting!

I'll study and test and then get back with some results.
Thanks for the help.
--
paulo
>[Quote]
>With the exception of the HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\...\RunOnce key, all keys and
>their entries are loaded asynchronously. Therefore, all entries in the
>RunServices and RunServicesOnce keys can potentially run at the same time.
>
>Entries in the HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\...\RunOnce key are loaded synchronously
>in an undefined order.
>
>Because the HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\...\RunOnce key is loaded synchronously,
>all of its entries must finish loading before the
>HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\...\Run, HKEY_CURRENT_USER\...\Run,
>HKEY_CURRENT_USER\...\RunOnce, and Startup Folder entries can be loaded.

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsme.general (More info?)

Mike M wrote:
> Rick T <plinnane3REMOVE@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> ain't? why not just go into the Registry and switch the keys order
>> around (okay that ain't a "just" but doesn't sound terribly
>> complicated)
>
>
> Rich,

"'rick" if'n ya wanna get technical.

>
> This is what I was in effect suggesting in my first reply and why I
> included a reference to KB179365. In other words I would have thought
> that launching the firewall as a service using an entry in
> HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\RunServices and then the
> clock synchronisation program or anything else using an entry in the
> HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Run key or even later
> using a shortcut in the Startup folder.

.... well... I suppose you *could* write a .bat or something to delay the
stack ... ow.

Has M$ changed that for XP ?


Rick

>
> However, as you can see by reading 179365, all RunService entries run
> synchronously which means that a malicious application launched using an
> entry in the RunServices key stands a chance of accessing the net before
> the firewall has been loaded although to be honest I'm not a network guy
> so have no idea as to how much of the IP stack has been loaded at that
> time allowing such access to proceed.

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsme.general (More info?)

Rick T <plinnane3REMOVE@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote:

> ... well... I suppose you *could* write a .bat or something to delay
> the stack ... ow.
>
> Has M$ changed that for XP ?

I honestly don't know but feel that I've seen elsewhere statements from a
reputable source that the XP SP2 firewall comes up pretty quickly and
before any app can get out to the net.

I'm sorry but I don't have the time or inclination to search it out at the
moment. No disrespect intended - I'm just feeling a bit under the weather
and more inclined to watch Live8 as I'm waiting for the Floyd to start.
:-) There have been some really good sets here in Hyde Park including one
or two that surprised me including Madge's.
--
Mike M

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsme.general (More info?)

"Mike M" <No_Spam@Corned_Beef.Only> wrote in message
news:eangkv0fFHA.3316@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
> Rick T <plinnane3REMOVE@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> ... well... I suppose you *could* write a .bat or something to delay
>> the stack ... ow.
>>
>> Has M$ changed that for XP ?
>
> I honestly don't know but feel that I've seen elsewhere statements from a
> reputable source that the XP SP2 firewall comes up pretty quickly and
> before any app can get out to the net.

That was one of the things it was supposed to be a fix for.

>
> I'm sorry but I don't have the time or inclination to search it out at the
> moment. No disrespect intended - I'm just feeling a bit under the weather

Nor me. Pizza and Special Brew. Searching for the Rennies.

> and more inclined to watch Live8 as I'm waiting for the Floyd to start.
> :-) There have been some really good sets here in Hyde Park including one
> or two that surprised me including Madge's.

Haven't been watching it but I suspect you're going soft in the head. The
woman ruined American Pie!

I do get a sense of being away from where it's happening. But apart from all
the airshows around here, there's a VC-10 flies directly overhead every week
and next week is the Cotswold Show with a Spitfire doing it's bit and
that'll probably be directly overhead too!


Shane

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsme.general (More info?)

Shane <shanebeatson@gmail.com> wrote:

<snip>

>> and more inclined to watch Live8 as I'm waiting for the Floyd to
>> start. :-) There have been some really good sets here in Hyde Park
>> including one or two that surprised me including Madge's.
>
> Haven't been watching it but I suspect you're going soft in the head.
> The woman ruined American Pie!

As maybe, can't really comment, I'm not a fan, but she did put on a good
performance this afternoon. Just watched what's left of The Who which
brought back not a few memories which just leaves the Floyd to come - not
quite sure where Macca's going to fit in and now they're being joined by
George Michael!

> I do get a sense of being away from where it's happening. But apart
> from all the airshows around here, there's a VC-10 flies directly
> overhead every week and next week is the Cotswold Show with a
> Spitfire doing it's bit and that'll probably be directly overhead too!

At least I don't have to put up with Concorde flying overhead now and the
only noise air traffic I tend to hear nowadays is when a police chopper is
supporting yet another raid on one of the many crack houses in the nearby
Myatt's Field Estate or along the Brixton/Vassal Road. :-)

Now I must watch/listen to Pink Floyd. Last heard them live in Earls
Court in the early 70s.
--
Mike

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsme.general (More info?)

Mike M wrote:
> Rick T <plinnane3REMOVE@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> ... well... I suppose you *could* write a .bat or something to delay
>> the stack ... ow.
>>
>> Has M$ changed that for XP ?
>
>
> I honestly don't know but feel that I've seen elsewhere statements from
> a reputable source that the XP SP2 firewall comes up pretty quickly and
> before any app can get out to the net.
>
> I'm sorry but I don't have the time or inclination to search it out at
> the moment. No disrespect intended -

none taken, ever.

> I'm just feeling a bit under the
> weather and more inclined to watch Live8 as I'm waiting for the Floyd to
> start. :-)

!!! that's today? THANKYOU <rushes to TV>.

> There have been some really good sets here in Hyde Park
> including one or two that surprised me including Madge's.

Motley Crue currently (from Barrie Ontario); hope Floyd gets broadcast
over here... looking forward to Randy Bachman (homegrown).


Rick