Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

Hi All

I'm trying to build my first home-build computer.(Asus A7N8X-E)
And now I have a question about how I do installing my MoBo in the case.I
have fit those copper things to keep the distants between the case and the
MoBo.On the MoBo side I have to fit these little ring for the electrical
insulation (or is this isolation!!!)
Whatever, my question is:o I fit those rings on both sides, or just on the
top side of the MoBo.

Thx in advance
françois

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

<fder.nospam@home.nl> wrote:

>I'm trying to build my first home-build computer.(Asus A7N8X-E)
>And now I have a question about how I do installing my MoBo in the
>case.I have fit those copper things to keep the distants between
>the case and the MoBo.

The distance is so that the underside of the mainboard does not
contact the metal case.

>On the MoBo side I have to fit these little ring for the electrical
>insulation (or is this isolation!!!)
>Whatever, my question is:o I fit those rings on both sides, or
>just on the top side of the MoBo.

Maybe neither. Did you get those rings from some shop?

Modern mainboard's are designed to be grounded at those points (I'm
not saying it's absolutely necessary).

http://usa.asus.com/products/mb/so [...] -e-d_l.jpg

In the picture, you can see silver colored electrically conductive
circles around the mainboard mounting holes. Those are ground
points, they are connected directly to device ground pins on the
mainboard. Power supply and mainboard ground are connected to the
case. There's no reason to insulate those points. Of course you
might want to avoid overtightening the screws or using screws which
have very big heads.

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

<fder.nospam@home.nl> wrote in message
news:cnvj3f$d0r$1@news1.zwoll1.ov.home.nl...
> Hi All
>
> I'm trying to build my first home-build computer.(Asus A7N8X-E)
> And now I have a question about how I do installing my MoBo in the case.I
> have fit those copper things to keep the distants between the case and the
> MoBo.On the MoBo side I have to fit these little ring for the electrical
> insulation (or is this isolation!!!)
> Whatever, my question is:o I fit those rings on both sides, or just on the
> top side of the MoBo.
>

Get a good book on how to build a PC and read it.

-- Bob Day

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

<fder.nospam@home.nl> wrote in news:cnvj3f$d0r$1@news1.zwoll1.ov.home.nl:

> Hi All
>
> I'm trying to build my first home-build computer.(Asus A7N8X-E)
> And now I have a question about how I do installing my MoBo in the
> case.I have fit those copper things to keep the distants between the
> case and the MoBo.On the MoBo side I have to fit these little ring for
> the electrical insulation (or is this isolation!!!)
> Whatever, my question is:o I fit those rings on both sides, or just on
> the top side of the MoBo.
>
> Thx in advance
> françois
>
>
>

I agree with the other advice. Also read the manual for the ASUS
motherboard. There are several jumpers that must be set correctly if you
want the system to work.

http://www.buildyourown.org.uk/
http://www.pcmech.com/byopc/index.htm
http://www.quepublishing.com/promotion/1626
http://www.asus.com.tw/support/dow [...] 2_id=10&l3
_id=23&m_id=2&f_name=e1293_a7n8x.zip~zaqwedc
or for the linewrap retarded: http://tinyurl.com/5e6l8


Mike


--
"All my friends can't be wrong!"
Remember, stupidity runs in herds.

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

> my question is:o I fit those rings on both sides, or just on the
> top side of the MoBo.

Top

--
Mac Cool

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

Washers: Generally made of plastic or paper, these go under the screws
to keep the screw head away from the circuitry on the top surface of
the motherboard. These are now sometimes being omitted in new system
cases because they are less necessary now than they once were (since
motherboards today now tend to keep the circuitry farther away from
the screwholes than they once did).

http://www.pcguide.com/ref/case/partsHardware-c.html




<fder.nospam@home.nl> wrote in message
news:cnvj3f$d0r$1@news1.zwoll1.ov.home.nl...
> Hi All
>
> I'm trying to build my first home-build computer.(Asus A7N8X-E)
> And now I have a question about how I do installing my MoBo in the
case.I
> have fit those copper things to keep the distants between the case
and the
> MoBo.On the MoBo side I have to fit these little ring for the
electrical
> insulation (or is this isolation!!!)
> Whatever, my question is:o I fit those rings on both sides, or
just on the
> top side of the MoBo.
>
> Thx in advance
> françois
>
>

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

> I'm trying to build my first home-build computer.(Asus A7N8X-E)

Good choice.

> And now I have a question about how I do installing my MoBo in the case.I
> have fit those copper things to keep the distants between the case and the
> MoBo.

Be very careful that you don't put a brass spacer somewhere behind
the board, then forget it's there when you fit the motherboard
into the case. It could short out the board if it makes contact
with the circuits on the back. Just keep track of them and make
sure you have a screw hole on the motherboard for each spacer you
put onto the case.

On the MoBo side I have to fit these little ring for the electrical
> insulation (or is this isolation!!!)
> Whatever, my question is:o I fit those rings on both sides, or just on the
> top side of the MoBo.

Those little paper rings are just extras. You don't need them. The
board is designed to be insulated from the brass spacers at the
screw holes.

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

For every mb that I've built in the last 4 years I have not used any fiber
or copper washers top or bottom. I would suggest you ignore them completely
in your build. Simply take care to tighten but not overdo it. If you come
across a spot on the mounting plate of the case that there is no dimple or
needs a screw in or squeeze on spacer to mount your mb then use what came
with the case. That should be all that's necessary.

--
Jan Alter
bearpuf@verizon.net
or
jalter@phila.k12.pa.us
"Al Smith" <invalid@address.com> wrote in message
news:AqLod.184108$Np3.7450790@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...
>> I'm trying to build my first home-build computer.(Asus A7N8X-E)
>
> Good choice.
>
>> And now I have a question about how I do installing my MoBo in the case.I
>> have fit those copper things to keep the distants between the case and
>> the
>> MoBo.
>
> Be very careful that you don't put a brass spacer somewhere behind the
> board, then forget it's there when you fit the motherboard into the case.
> It could short out the board if it makes contact with the circuits on the
> back. Just keep track of them and make sure you have a screw hole on the
> motherboard for each spacer you put onto the case.
>
> On the MoBo side I have to fit these little ring for the electrical
>> insulation (or is this isolation!!!)
>> Whatever, my question is:o I fit those rings on both sides, or just on
>> the
>> top side of the MoBo.
>
> Those little paper rings are just extras. You don't need them. The board
> is designed to be insulated from the brass spacers at the screw holes.

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

you don' need no stinkin spacers or washers no more.

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

<fder.nospam@home.nl> wrote in message news:<cnvj3f$d0r$1@news1.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>...

> I'm trying to build my first home-build computer.
> (Asus A7N8X-E) And now I have a question about how
> I do installing my MoBo in the case. I have fit
> those copper things to keep the distants between the
> case and the MoBo. On the MoBo side I have to fit
> these little ring for the electrical insulation (or
> is this isolation!!!)
> do I fit those rings on both sides, or just on the
> top side of the MoBo.

The copper things are actually brass and called "standoffs."

When in doubt, install those rings (fiber washers) on both sides of
each hole because if you leave out a needed washer, the motherboard
will short to ground and possibly be damaged. On the other hand if
you install unneeded washers you'll simply waste some time and washers
and have marginally worse immunity to electrical noise.

Nobody should make a blanket recommendation about insulator washers
and all motherboards, and each board must be inspected individually.
If a side of a mounting hole is surrounded by a copper donut (usually
has 6 tiny holes around it, may be coated with solder) or is
completely clear of any copper (neither standoff nor screw can
possibly touch copper traces), then it doesn't need an insulator
washer. Motherboards made in the past 5 years rarely need insulators
but I've seen exceptions as new as 12 months old.

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

Thank you guys.
you were a big help.
<fder.nospam@home.nl> schreef in bericht
news:cnvj3f$d0r$1@news1.zwoll1.ov.home.nl...
> Hi All
>
> I'm trying to build my first home-build computer.(Asus A7N8X-E)
> And now I have a question about how I do installing my MoBo in the case.I
> have fit those copper things to keep the distants between the case and the
> MoBo.On the MoBo side I have to fit these little ring for the electrical
> insulation (or is this isolation!!!)
> Whatever, my question is:o I fit those rings on both sides, or just on
the
> top side of the MoBo.
>
> Thx in advance
> françois
>
>

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

Motherboard and chassis grounds should not be electrically
connected at multiple points. Concept is called single point
grounding - also used to make A/D converters work reliable and
to eliminate hum among stereo components. An experiment
easily demonstrates the problem if you can make 'painful'
static electricity.

Put the computer on a glass table top (because even wood is
an electrical conductor). While computer is running, static
discharge your body to various corners of a computer chassis.
Computer should work just fine and uninterrupted. However, if
the motherboard ground has too many electrical connections to
chassis, then computer will crash.

The one electrically conductive standoff 'motherboard to
chassis' should be in same area as power connector and IO
boards. When normal static electric discharges occur, then
two electrically conductive paths from chassis to motherboard
ground do not conduct that static discharge via motherboard
ground plane.

Nylon standoffs are the simple solution. Motherboard's
green solder mask is not intended to be an electrical
insulator (even though some assume so). Nylon shoulder
washers keep metallic standoffs from penetrating the solder
mask; from making motherboard ground contact. But simpler is
to obtain 'snap in' nylon standoffs to eliminate accidental
shorts to motherboard AND to make computer resistant to static
electric induced crashes.

fder.nospam@home.nl wrote:
> Thank you guys.
> you were a big help.
> <fder.nospam@home.nl> schreef in bericht
> news:cnvj3f$d0r$1@news1.zwoll1.ov.home.nl...

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

w_tom <w_tom1@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Motherboard and chassis grounds should not be electrically
>connected at multiple points. Concept is called single point
>grounding - also used to make A/D converters work reliable and
>to eliminate hum among stereo components. An experiment
>easily demonstrates the problem if you can make 'painful'
>static electricity.

The term "single point grounding" is buzzword nonsense in this
context. The reader can do a Usenet archive search for "single point
grounding" and then scroll down the page, noticing most of the posts
were made by "w_tom".

Antec cases come with no washers, but they come with electrically
conducting brass mainboards standoffs. Microstar International and
Asus mainboards have electricity conductive solder coated rings
around their mounting holes which are directly connected to device
ground pins, and they do not come with washers either.

You don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out what that
means.

If what you are saying were true, which it isn't, given the contrary
circumstances, motherboard/mainboard makers would advise us to use
insulation. Clearly, we are expected to ground the mainboard at
those points. (I am speaking about mainboards which have electricity
conductive rings around their mounting holes.)

> Nylon standoffs are the simple solution.

They would be, if what you're saying were true. Nylon standoffs
would be cheaper than electricity conducting brass standoffs also.

> Motherboard's green solder mask is not intended to be an
> electrical insulator (even though some assume so).

Electricity conductive mounting hole rings are not intended to be
electrical insulators either. The idea that any manufacturer would
use electricity conductive material for an insulator is bizarre in
my opinion.








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Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

In the junior high school lunch room, where basic knowledge
is minimal, the child learns how insults can replace fact.
However adults learn facts before posting. If John Doe had
basic electrical knowledge, then he would have discovered
numerous references to single point grounding. Instead, John
Doe searched newsgroups (not the web) for electrical
principals he never bothered to learn.

A John Doe educated in simple electrical concepts would have
found numerous engineering discussions about single point
ground. One from Microchip - a microprocessor manufacturer:
http://www.microchipc.com/PIC_tips_3.asp
> The best way to handle the ground problem is to have different
> ground systems that connect at only one point. The precision
> analog REFERENCE ground should always be designed so that an
> absolute minimum of current actually flows through it. In
> practice this is accomplished by having all reference ground
> connections terminating at a SINGLE POINT.

This is but one example. Literally every electronic part
manufacturer provides application notes that teach variations
of the single point grounding. Again, in stereo and PA
systems, the same concept eliminates something called ground
loops.

I don't know who John Doe is. But quickly he does what kids
in a lunch room do. Kids don't know facts, so instead, they
attack the messenger. John Doe obviously does not possess
basic electrical knowledge. He demonstrates why so many
computer assemblers are 'experts' - needs no freaking
education.

Don't be mislead by the naive. Make a computer systems more
reliable. A connection between motherboard logic ground and
chassis ground should be single point. With dry weather
approaching, the previously posted static electricity
experiment can demonstrate the principles. Notice the
difference between this poster and John Doe. This poster
cites professional sources AND provides experiments (static
shock a computer, or stereo system ground loops) to
demonstrate the electrical concept.

That keyboard beneath your fingers uses same single point
ground concepts. Pin 3 or pin 4 is the DC ground. Connector
shell and shield inside wire connects to DC ground at a single
point. Why? Some keyboards go even farther to keep shield
ground separate from DC ground until both meet, instead, at
motherboard. Just another example of single point grounds to
avoid failures from static electricity and noise. Two
separate grounds that meet at a common point.

Single point ground justified by electrical reasons - when
one first learns these basic electrical principles. This post
includes design examples AND the principles behind that
design. Principles that apparently so confused John Doe that
he searches newsgroups for a technical explanation rather than
consult engineering books or engineering application notes.

Best to mount a motherboard to chassis with only one
connection between the two grounds. Eliminate noise between
ground pins of computer's Integrated Circuits to make computer
more reliable. No ground transients through motherboard logic
ground means a stable computer system. Motherboard logic
ground best joins chassis ground at a single point using a
single conductive standoff.

John Doe wrote:
> The term "single point grounding" is buzzword nonsense in this
> context. The reader can do a Usenet archive search for "single point
> grounding" and then scroll down the page, noticing most of the posts
> were made by "w_tom".
>
> Antec cases come with no washers, but they come with electrically
> conducting brass mainboards standoffs. Microstar International and
> Asus mainboards have electricity conductive solder coated rings
> around their mounting holes which are directly connected to device
> ground pins, and they do not come with washers either.
>
> You don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out what that
> means.
>
> If what you are saying were true, which it isn't, given the contrary
> circumstances, motherboard/mainboard makers would advise us to use
> insulation. Clearly, we are expected to ground the mainboard at
> those points. (I am speaking about mainboards which have electricity
> conductive rings around their mounting holes.)
>
> > Nylon standoffs are the simple solution.
>
> They would be, if what you're saying were true. Nylon standoffs
> would be cheaper than electricity conducting brass standoffs also.
>
> > Motherboard's green solder mask is not intended to be an
> > electrical insulator (even though some assume so).
>
> Electricity conductive mounting hole rings are not intended to be
> electrical insulators either. The idea that any manufacturer would
> use electricity conductive material for an insulator is bizarre in
> my opinion.
>
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