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I've ordered all the bits to build my own MCE 2005 Shuttle with the sole
exception of the graphics card. I have narrowed the choice down to the
Sapphire Radeon 9600 or the Sapphire Radeon 9600 Pro Advantage. Pricewise
the difference is too small to worry about so the decision all comes down to
noise vs performance. The plain 9600 is passively cooled, whereas the 9600
Pro has a small fan. The Pro has higher GPU and memory clock speeds and is
therefore faster. I guess the fan also contributes towards better
overclocking headroom, if neede.

I like the idea of the quicker card but only if the noise levels are going
to be bearable for an MCE machine in a tightly packed Shuttle casing. The
reviews I have found say the fan is not too noisy but they are viewing from
a gaming perspective rather than an MCE perspective so would probably accept
some noise. Can anyone comment on the noise levels from the Pro card when
used for music, photos, video/DVD or gaming? If gaming then I guess a bit of
noise will be tollerable whereas for all other types of use I would hope for
near silence.

Thanks for any feedback :-)

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"Tiny Tim" <_tim_dodd@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:41b1bb3c$0$52979$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net...
> I've ordered all the bits to build my own MCE 2005 Shuttle with the sole
> exception of the graphics card. I have narrowed the choice down to the
> Sapphire Radeon 9600 or the Sapphire Radeon 9600 Pro Advantage. Pricewise
> the difference is too small to worry about so the decision all comes down
> to noise vs performance. The plain 9600 is passively cooled, whereas the
> 9600 Pro has a small fan. The Pro has higher GPU and memory clock speeds
> and is therefore faster. I guess the fan also contributes towards better
> overclocking headroom, if neede.
>
> I like the idea of the quicker card but only if the noise levels are going
> to be bearable for an MCE machine in a tightly packed Shuttle casing. The
> reviews I have found say the fan is not too noisy but they are viewing
> from a gaming perspective rather than an MCE perspective so would probably
> accept some noise. Can anyone comment on the noise levels from the Pro
> card when used for music, photos, video/DVD or gaming? If gaming then I
> guess a bit of noise will be tollerable whereas for all other types of use
> I would hope for near silence.
>
> Thanks for any feedback :-)

you wont need the pro if you arent gaming, but if you are then you'll want
the pro. why not get the best of both worlds and get the pro and one of
these?
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/acat [...] alman.html
very bottom of the list.
so its costing you another 25 quid, but for the performance plus
silentness....


>

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,microsoft.public.windows.mediacenter,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

Iain Dingsdale wrote:
> "Tiny Tim" <_tim_dodd@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:41b1bb3c$0$52979$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net...
>> I've ordered all the bits to build my own MCE 2005 Shuttle with the
>> sole exception of the graphics card. I have narrowed the choice down
>> to the Sapphire Radeon 9600 or the Sapphire Radeon 9600 Pro
>> Advantage. Pricewise the difference is too small to worry about so
>> the decision all comes down to noise vs performance. The plain 9600
>> is passively cooled, whereas the 9600 Pro has a small fan. The Pro
>> has higher GPU and memory clock speeds and is therefore faster. I
>> guess the fan also contributes towards better overclocking headroom,
>> if neede. I like the idea of the quicker card but only if the noise
>> levels are
>> going to be bearable for an MCE machine in a tightly packed Shuttle
>> casing. The reviews I have found say the fan is not too noisy but
>> they are viewing from a gaming perspective rather than an MCE
>> perspective so would probably accept some noise. Can anyone comment
>> on the noise levels from the Pro card when used for music, photos,
>> video/DVD or gaming? If gaming then I guess a bit of noise will be
>> tollerable whereas for all other types of use I would hope for near
>> silence. Thanks for any feedback :-)
>
> you wont need the pro if you arent gaming, but if you are then you'll
> want the pro. why not get the best of both worlds and get the pro and
> one of these?
> http://www.overclockers.co.uk/acat [...] alman.html
> very bottom of the list.
> so its costing you another 25 quid, but for the performance plus
> silentness....

The gaming thing is exactly my dilemma. When I first started planning this I
had no interest in using the machine for gaming, as I am quite happy with my
Xbox and collection of 30 games to date and growing. But when I saw Half
Life 2 on a gaming programme I really began to wonder whether I might at
least like the option to play PC games, albeit at only at 800*600 on my TV.
I do not want a monitor in the setup other than for the initial build and
any BIOS or debug work so until I can afford a nice big HD flat panel
display a TV screen is all that I'll be using if I game at all.

I also don't know how much room I will have in the Shuttle case to fit a
Zalman cooler. The bits haven't arrived yet and I have never seen a Shuttle
in the flesh but it looks like the Zalman will add a lot to the width of the
card - maybe too much to squeeze in next to the tuner card.

--
Please quote "easytiger" for your PlusNet referral :-)

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On Sat, 4 Dec 2004 13:27:10 -0000, "Tiny Tim" <_tim_dodd@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>I've ordered all the bits to build my own MCE 2005 Shuttle with the sole
>exception of the graphics card. I have narrowed the choice down to the
>Sapphire Radeon 9600 or the Sapphire Radeon 9600 Pro Advantage. Pricewise
>the difference is too small to worry about so the decision all comes down to
>noise vs performance. The plain 9600 is passively cooled, whereas the 9600
>Pro has a small fan. The Pro has higher GPU and memory clock speeds and is
>therefore faster. I guess the fan also contributes towards better
>overclocking headroom, if neede.

What model Shuttle is it? The ones designed for media centre use have
pretty good graphics on board already, and the only reason for
installing a high end GPU would be to run games. And, as you
correctly say, the extra heat will require extra cooling = extra
noise.

I'm just building (haven't actually got the bits yet) a Shuttle MCE
system, based on the ST62K Zen - according to the blurb it has
- integrated ATI RADEON 9100 based 2D/3D graphics core
- fully support DirectX 8.1
- shared Memory max. 128MB
- with TV out support PAL and NTSC systems

I don't see the need for a GPU there...
--
Champ
I don't know, but I've been told, never slow down, you never grow old
GSX-R 1000, GPz 750 turbo, ZX7RR Endurance Racer x 2
GYASB#0 BotToS#2 BOTAFO(T|F)#35 WG*#1 DFV#8
Team UKRM Racing : www.team-ukrm.com

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,microsoft.public.windows.mediacenter,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

Champ wrote:
> On Sat, 4 Dec 2004 13:27:10 -0000, "Tiny Tim" <_tim_dodd@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I've ordered all the bits to build my own MCE 2005 Shuttle with the
>> sole exception of the graphics card. I have narrowed the choice down
>> to the Sapphire Radeon 9600 or the Sapphire Radeon 9600 Pro
>> Advantage. Pricewise the difference is too small to worry about so
>> the decision all comes down to noise vs performance. The plain 9600
>> is passively cooled, whereas the 9600 Pro has a small fan. The Pro
>> has higher GPU and memory clock speeds and is therefore faster. I
>> guess the fan also contributes towards better overclocking headroom,
>> if neede.
>
> What model Shuttle is it? The ones designed for media centre use have
> pretty good graphics on board already, and the only reason for
> installing a high end GPU would be to run games. And, as you
> correctly say, the extra heat will require extra cooling = extra
> noise.
>
> I'm just building (haven't actually got the bits yet) a Shuttle MCE
> system, based on the ST62K Zen - according to the blurb it has
> - integrated ATI RADEON 9100 based 2D/3D graphics core
> - fully support DirectX 8.1
> - shared Memory max. 128MB
> - with TV out support PAL and NTSC systems
>
> I don't see the need for a GPU there...

I've chosen an SN95G5 which takes an Athlon 64 Skt939 CPU as I wanted
something a bit more future proof and with options to expand use beyond just
TV/Video and music, including possibly gaming. There are no on board
graphics in that SFF. I also wanted the higher performance but lower power
consumption of the Athon 64 90nm chip vs the Pentiums.

I know there are certainly cheaper options but Intel just does not appeal
and I want to look forward to what 64 bit computing has to offer in the
future.

--
Please quote "easytiger" for your PlusNet referral :-)

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,microsoft.public.windows.mediacenter,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

I just got done building a Shuttle SB65G2 with MCE 2005 and I used the
Sapphire 9600... better without the fan and plenty powerful enuf.

Auggie

"Tiny Tim" <_tim_dodd@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:41b1bb3c$0$52979$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net...
> I've ordered all the bits to build my own MCE 2005 Shuttle with the sole
> exception of the graphics card. I have narrowed the choice down to the
> Sapphire Radeon 9600 or the Sapphire Radeon 9600 Pro Advantage. Pricewise
> the difference is too small to worry about so the decision all comes down
to
> noise vs performance. The plain 9600 is passively cooled, whereas the 9600
> Pro has a small fan. The Pro has higher GPU and memory clock speeds and is
> therefore faster. I guess the fan also contributes towards better
> overclocking headroom, if neede.
>
> I like the idea of the quicker card but only if the noise levels are going
> to be bearable for an MCE machine in a tightly packed Shuttle casing. The
> reviews I have found say the fan is not too noisy but they are viewing
from
> a gaming perspective rather than an MCE perspective so would probably
accept
> some noise. Can anyone comment on the noise levels from the Pro card when
> used for music, photos, video/DVD or gaming? If gaming then I guess a bit
of
> noise will be tollerable whereas for all other types of use I would hope
for
> near silence.
>
> Thanks for any feedback :-)
>
>

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,microsoft.public.windows.mediacenter,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

"Tiny Tim" <_tim_dodd@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:41b1cf9a$0$53008$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net...
> Iain Dingsdale wrote:
>> "Tiny Tim" <_tim_dodd@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:41b1bb3c$0$52979$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net...
>>> I've ordered all the bits to build my own MCE 2005 Shuttle with the
>>> sole exception of the graphics card. I have narrowed the choice down
>>> to the Sapphire Radeon 9600 or the Sapphire Radeon 9600 Pro
>>> Advantage. Pricewise the difference is too small to worry about so
>>> the decision all comes down to noise vs performance. The plain 9600
>>> is passively cooled, whereas the 9600 Pro has a small fan. The Pro
>>> has higher GPU and memory clock speeds and is therefore faster. I
>>> guess the fan also contributes towards better overclocking headroom,
>>> if neede. I like the idea of the quicker card but only if the noise
>>> levels are
>>> going to be bearable for an MCE machine in a tightly packed Shuttle
>>> casing. The reviews I have found say the fan is not too noisy but
>>> they are viewing from a gaming perspective rather than an MCE
>>> perspective so would probably accept some noise. Can anyone comment
>>> on the noise levels from the Pro card when used for music, photos,
>>> video/DVD or gaming? If gaming then I guess a bit of noise will be
>>> tollerable whereas for all other types of use I would hope for near
>>> silence. Thanks for any feedback :-)
>>
>> you wont need the pro if you arent gaming, but if you are then you'll
>> want the pro. why not get the best of both worlds and get the pro and
>> one of these?
>> http://www.overclockers.co.uk/acat [...] alman.html
>> very bottom of the list.
>> so its costing you another 25 quid, but for the performance plus
>> silentness....
>
> The gaming thing is exactly my dilemma. When I first started planning this
> I had no interest in using the machine for gaming, as I am quite happy
> with my Xbox and collection of 30 games to date and growing. But when I
> saw Half Life 2 on a gaming programme I really began to wonder whether I
> might at least like the option to play PC games, albeit at only at 800*600
> on my TV. I do not want a monitor in the setup other than for the initial
> build and any BIOS or debug work so until I can afford a nice big HD flat
> panel display a TV screen is all that I'll be using if I game at all.
>
> I also don't know how much room I will have in the Shuttle case to fit a
> Zalman cooler. The bits haven't arrived yet and I have never seen a
> Shuttle in the flesh but it looks like the Zalman will add a lot to the
> width of the card - maybe too much to squeeze in next to the tuner card.

god thats a good point, my mate has a shuttle with a 9600 pro and a TV
tuner. the tuner part of the card is about 2 mil away from the 9600 :S
best bet might be a more conventional silent fan

>
> --
> Please quote "easytiger" for your PlusNet referral :-)
>

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"QP" <quietpointer@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ej41bXi2EHA.2600@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>I just got done building a Shuttle SB65G2 with MCE 2005 and I used the
> Sapphire 9600... better without the fan and plenty powerful enuf.
>
> Auggie
>
> "Tiny Tim" <_tim_dodd@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:41b1bb3c$0$52979$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net...
>> I've ordered all the bits to build my own MCE 2005 Shuttle with the sole
>> exception of the graphics card. I have narrowed the choice down to the
>> Sapphire Radeon 9600 or the Sapphire Radeon 9600 Pro Advantage. Pricewise
>> the difference is too small to worry about so the decision all comes down
> to
>> noise vs performance. The plain 9600 is passively cooled, whereas the
>> 9600
>> Pro has a small fan. The Pro has higher GPU and memory clock speeds and
>> is
>> therefore faster. I guess the fan also contributes towards better
>> overclocking headroom, if neede.
>>
>> I like the idea of the quicker card but only if the noise levels are
>> going
>> to be bearable for an MCE machine in a tightly packed Shuttle casing. The
>> reviews I have found say the fan is not too noisy but they are viewing
> from
>> a gaming perspective rather than an MCE perspective so would probably
> accept
>> some noise. Can anyone comment on the noise levels from the Pro card when
>> used for music, photos, video/DVD or gaming? If gaming then I guess a bit
> of
>> noise will be tollerable whereas for all other types of use I would hope
> for
>> near silence.
>>
>> Thanks for any feedback :-)
>>
>>
>


Go for the fanless one - the whole point of a MCE is they are supposed to be
in the living room and QUIET.

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,microsoft.public.windows.mediacenter,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

On Sat, 4 Dec 2004 13:27:10 -0000, "Tiny Tim" <_tim_dodd@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>I've ordered all the bits to build my own MCE 2005 Shuttle with the sole
>exception of the graphics card. I have narrowed the choice down to the
>Sapphire Radeon 9600 or the Sapphire Radeon 9600 Pro Advantage. Pricewise
>the difference is too small to worry about so the decision all comes down to
>noise vs performance. The plain 9600 is passively cooled, whereas the 9600
>Pro has a small fan. The Pro has higher GPU and memory clock speeds and is
>therefore faster. I guess the fan also contributes towards better
>overclocking headroom, if neede.
>
>I like the idea of the quicker card but only if the noise levels are going
>to be bearable for an MCE machine in a tightly packed Shuttle casing. The
>reviews I have found say the fan is not too noisy but they are viewing from
>a gaming perspective rather than an MCE perspective so would probably accept
>some noise. Can anyone comment on the noise levels from the Pro card when
>used for music, photos, video/DVD or gaming? If gaming then I guess a bit of
>noise will be tollerable whereas for all other types of use I would hope for
>near silence.
>
>Thanks for any feedback :-)
>

Get the 9600 128-bit card like the one here:
http://tinyurl.com/5ot8o

regards

Dud

--

Some people have a way with words, others not have way.

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,microsoft.public.windows.mediacenter,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

Duddits wrote:
>
> Get the 9600 128-bit card like the one here:
> http://tinyurl.com/5ot8o
>
> regards
>
> Dud

Thanks for the replies everyone. Unfortunately the Rosewill brand does not
appear to be available in the UK.

It seems the Sapphire Radeon 9600XT 128MB Ultimate will give me the
performance and silence I require as it is a fanless 9600XT card. The
problem I now need to resolve is whether it will fit in the SN95G5 case and
leave enough space to stick a Hauppauge Win-PVR-150-MCE in the PCI slot.
I've seen a few reports that the card will fit the Shuttle OK but no mention
of whether the PCI slot remains clear. There are some dimensions for the
card here....

http://www.sapphiretech.com/brosch [...] ension.pdf

But as the Shuttle does not arrive till Tuesday I cannot tell whether I will
have enough room. I've fired off a query to Shuttle but if anyone else knows
the answer I'd like to order my GFX card pronto so that it arrive on Tuesday
in time to fit to the rest of the bits.

Thanks,
Tim.

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On Sun, 5 Dec 2004 19:02:39 -0000, "Tiny Tim" <_tim_dodd@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>problem I now need to resolve is whether it will fit in the SN95G5 case and
>leave enough space to stick a Hauppauge Win-PVR-150-MCE in the PCI slot.
>I've seen a few reports that the card will fit the Shuttle OK but no mention
>of whether the PCI slot remains clear. There are some dimensions for the
>card here....
>
>http://www.sapphiretech.com/broschure/ult-dimension.pdf

That looks very like the Zalman fanless heatsink mentioned earlier...

I've got one of those wrapped round my own 9600pro, and I can tell you
that if the AGP and PCI are side by side in the SN95G5, you will _not_
fit a PCI card in as well. The whole next slot is taken by heatsink
(top one in your pic).

I'd be mildly surprised if it fits in the Shuttle at all, even by
itself - I suspect that the back-side heatsink (bottom one on your
pic) would clash with the drive cage. I've not been in that model, but
the SN45G's I've built probably wouldn't take it without modification.
I've not got one here to test at the moment though.

The original fan I took off my 9600pro was a nasty whiny little thing,
too. No suggestions, apart from "play Xbox games instead". Sorry.

Cheers - Jaimie (happily enjoying HL2)
--
Far away is close at hand in images of elsewhere

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,microsoft.public.windows.mediacenter,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

Jaimie Vandenbergh wrote:
> On Sun, 5 Dec 2004 19:02:39 -0000, "Tiny Tim" <_tim_dodd@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> problem I now need to resolve is whether it will fit in the SN95G5
>> case and leave enough space to stick a Hauppauge Win-PVR-150-MCE in
>> the PCI slot. I've seen a few reports that the card will fit the
>> Shuttle OK but no mention of whether the PCI slot remains clear.
>> There are some dimensions for the card here....
>>
>> http://www.sapphiretech.com/brosch [...] ension.pdf
>
> That looks very like the Zalman fanless heatsink mentioned earlier...
>
> I've got one of those wrapped round my own 9600pro, and I can tell you
> that if the AGP and PCI are side by side in the SN95G5, you will _not_
> fit a PCI card in as well. The whole next slot is taken by heatsink
> (top one in your pic).
>
> I'd be mildly surprised if it fits in the Shuttle at all, even by
> itself - I suspect that the back-side heatsink (bottom one on your
> pic) would clash with the drive cage. I've not been in that model, but
> the SN45G's I've built probably wouldn't take it without modification.
> I've not got one here to test at the moment though.
>
> The original fan I took off my 9600pro was a nasty whiny little thing,
> too. No suggestions, apart from "play Xbox games instead". Sorry.
>
> Cheers - Jaimie (happily enjoying HL2)

Reviews of the card say the heatsink is based on the Zalman but modified by
Sapphire. I looked things up on the Zalman site and of three variations of
the design there was only a warning against one that it would block the
adjacent slot. The problem is, as you've said, it *looks* like it won't fit,
but without actually trying it it's impossible to be sure. I guess I could
always order one and if it is no good return it and make do with the plain
old 9600 :-(

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,microsoft.public.windows.mediacenter,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

On Mon, 6 Dec 2004 05:13:07 -0000, "Tiny Tim"
<_tim_dodd@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Jaimie Vandenbergh wrote:
>> On Sun, 5 Dec 2004 19:02:39 -0000, "Tiny Tim" <_tim_dodd@hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> problem I now need to resolve is whether it will fit in the SN95G5
>>> case and leave enough space to stick a Hauppauge Win-PVR-150-MCE in
>>> the PCI slot. I've seen a few reports that the card will fit the
>>> Shuttle OK but no mention of whether the PCI slot remains clear.
>>> There are some dimensions for the card here....
>>>
>>> http://www.sapphiretech.com/brosch [...] ension.pdf
>>
>> That looks very like the Zalman fanless heatsink mentioned earlier...
>>
>> I've got one of those wrapped round my own 9600pro, and I can tell you
>> that if the AGP and PCI are side by side in the SN95G5, you will _not_
>> fit a PCI card in as well. The whole next slot is taken by heatsink
>> (top one in your pic).
>>
>> I'd be mildly surprised if it fits in the Shuttle at all, even by
>> itself - I suspect that the back-side heatsink (bottom one on your
>> pic) would clash with the drive cage. I've not been in that model, but
>> the SN45G's I've built probably wouldn't take it without modification.
>> I've not got one here to test at the moment though.
>>
>> The original fan I took off my 9600pro was a nasty whiny little thing,
>> too. No suggestions, apart from "play Xbox games instead". Sorry.
>>
>> Cheers - Jaimie (happily enjoying HL2)
>
>Reviews of the card say the heatsink is based on the Zalman but modified by
>Sapphire. I looked things up on the Zalman site and of three variations of
>the design there was only a warning against one that it would block the
>adjacent slot. The problem is, as you've said, it *looks* like it won't fit,
>but without actually trying it it's impossible to be sure. I guess I could
>always order one and if it is no good return it and make do with the plain
>old 9600 :-(
>

Keep in mind that it's not necessarily only a matter of
whether it fits. Passive heatsinks such as those require a
fair amount of airflow, without which they'll just get
hotter and hotter. I can't presume to know what lengths
others are willing to go to but if it were my box what I'd
do is get the cheapest regular 9600 without the fancy
heatsink and add my own. By adding my own I'd be able to
choose a low RPM fan that's quiet, and make it just large
enough to do the job but small enough to not only fit, but
leave ample space around it such that it's recirculating as
little air as possible.

BUT, there might be other options. For example if this
vidcard is right next to another card, it might be possible
to epoxy a mounting bracket onto that other card to which a
fan is attached, allowing a larger heatsink on the video
card and a airflow path drawing fresh(er) air rather than
what's already pre-heated due to being in immediate vicinity
of the heatsink.