Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking (More info?)

What's a good range of idle temps for this chip? I've got a
Thermalright SK-6 w/ 5800rpm 60x60x15mm Delta fan,
running a P3-S 1.26 @ 1.33 (140FSB). Idle temps are
case + 16C (e.g. right now 27C case 43C cpu), and I'm
wondering if more airflow will lower this number substantially
(system is in a living room so noise _is_ a consideration), or
is this about as good as it gets with air cooled Tualatins?

The other curiosity is load temps -- this chip gains only 4-5C
after running CPUBurn for 30 minutes. Is this normal?

Thanks for any info.

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking (More info?)

Rick wrote:

> What's a good range of idle temps for this chip? I've got a
> Thermalright SK-6 w/ 5800rpm 60x60x15mm Delta fan,
> running a P3-S 1.26 @ 1.33 (140FSB). Idle temps are
> case + 16C (e.g. right now 27C case 43C cpu), and I'm
> wondering if more airflow will lower this number substantially
> (system is in a living room so noise _is_ a consideration), or
> is this about as good as it gets with air cooled Tualatins?

That sounds about right, my P3-S 1.4s idle at case +10C - but I'm
measuring CPU temps with a thermistor jammed up against the heat
spreader (old board, doesn't know how to read on-die temps). I would
expect to read at least 5C higher on-die. I'm running 1U solid copper
coolers with 60x60x10mm fans @ 5000rpm.

I doubt increased airflow will make much difference - I had a big case
fan blowing directly on my Coppermines (dropped their idle temps by 10C)
and initially left it in place after upgrading, but it made almost no
difference to the Tualatins so I disconnected it. You might gain a small
improvement by lowering Vcore - mine run on 1.35V.

> The other curiosity is load temps -- this chip gains only 4-5C
> after running CPUBurn for 30 minutes. Is this normal?

Yup, mine only gain 2C under load, again measured externally.

P2B

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking (More info?)

On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 00:35:34 GMT, "Rick" <nospam@earthlink.net> wrote:

>What's a good range of idle temps for this chip? I've got a
>Thermalright SK-6 w/ 5800rpm 60x60x15mm Delta fan,
>running a P3-S 1.26 @ 1.33 (140FSB). Idle temps are
>case + 16C (e.g. right now 27C case 43C cpu), and I'm
>wondering if more airflow will lower this number substantially
>(system is in a living room so noise _is_ a consideration), or
>is this about as good as it gets with air cooled Tualatins?
>
>The other curiosity is load temps -- this chip gains only 4-5C
>after running CPUBurn for 30 minutes. Is this normal?

temps are normal /IMHO HLT softCooling doesn´t work properly with
Tuallies on most boards when idle-ing/; you have a hell of a cooler,
try to run it @ 5V !
see my site under comp/benchmarks about temperatures ..

--
Regards , SPAJKY ®
mail addr. @ my site @ http://www.spajky.vze.com
3rd Ann.: - "Tualatin OC-ed / BX-Slot1 / inaudible setup!"

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking (More info?)

"Spajky" <Spajky@##volja.net> wrote in message news:hr0a61huvl562l29t7h2k3ine660aaghji@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 00:35:34 GMT, "Rick" <nospam@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >What's a good range of idle temps for this chip? I've got a
> >Thermalright SK-6 w/ 5800rpm 60x60x15mm Delta fan,
> >running a P3-S 1.26 @ 1.33 (140FSB). Idle temps are
> >case + 16C (e.g. right now 27C case 43C cpu), and I'm
> >wondering if more airflow will lower this number substantially
> >(system is in a living room so noise _is_ a consideration), or
> >is this about as good as it gets with air cooled Tualatins?
> >
> >The other curiosity is load temps -- this chip gains only 4-5C
> >after running CPUBurn for 30 minutes. Is this normal?
>
> temps are normal /IMHO HLT softCooling doesn´t work properly with
> Tuallies on most boards when idle-ing/; you have a hell of a cooler,
> try to run it @ 5V !
> see my site under comp/benchmarks about temperatures ..

Thanks all for the info.

Spajky, instead of running the fan at 5V or 7V, I'd like to put
an adapter on the SK-6 and use a 70 or 80mm fan at a lower
speed. Do you know if anyone makes such a thing for the
SK-6? Or how would I go about making one of my own?

Also, I'd like to go higher than 1.33GHz but this silly Asus
motherboard (TUSL2) automatically throttles back memory
timings and drops AGP to 2X when FSB is set to anything
over 140MHz. No way around it other than to use a custom
bios, which from what I've read lots of people have had
problems with.
http://www.x86-secret.com/articles/tweak/i815twken.htm

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking (More info?)

On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 18:54:50 GMT, "Rick" <nospam@earthlink.net> wrote:

>Spajky, instead of running the fan at 5V or 7V, I'd like to put
>an adapter on the SK-6 and use a 70 or 80mm fan at a lower
>speed. Do you know if anyone makes such a thing for the
>SK-6? Or how would I go about making one of my own?

...for making it your own, you would not need some strong
material, IMHO 1mm hard cardboard paper could support bigger fan w/o
problem /I´ve seen such solutions/ ...
...but even if you use your existent fan should not be problem
running it (if starts w/o problem) @ 5V (still should run around
3000rpm!); my fan is smaller than yours & at 2400rpm & my Tuallie runs
no problem really full load @ even more than 60°C from die measured.
Surely does not need more than 7V even if machine is settled in very
warm inviroment if airflow thru case is normal ... If does not start @
that voltage (deltas can be problematic sometimes), there is a simple
circuit (kick-on) on electronics section on my site too ...
Heat is really NOT an issue with Tuallies if are really not
pushed up too much when OC-ing....

>Also, I'd like to go higher than 1.33GHz but this silly Asus
>motherboard (TUSL2) automatically throttles back memory
>timings and drops AGP to 2X when FSB is set to anything
>over 140MHz. No way around it other than to use a custom
>bios, which from what I've read lots of people have had
>problems with.

The MoBO is excellent (the best for OC stability!)

...may be that first your Ram can not handle higher
frequencies (if having it more than 2 sticks or more than 256Mb if are
generic PC133 ones. (my actual 2x128 sticks can not go higher than
142MHz, but goes at 140 cas222!) . Cpu itself IMHO could go higher if
trying to lower Fsb/ram ratio in bios, but that I do not recommend you
(machine would be slower!) The problem to OC further your CPU is that
you @ default have already 133fsb & for better OC you need a heel of
Ram (Mushin PC150 or something - too expensive & hard to find these
days ...) Maybe would be better than trying to run higher than 140MHz
to "squeeze" Ram latencies instead it it can handle it!

Well about that AGP2x problem it is not a real problem, since
in practical life having 4x you would not gain more than 5% !!! If you
woud like to reflash bios, surely DO NOT do it from Windoze !!! Use
instead this:
http://users.volja.net/jerman55/FlashBiosFD.zip

But if you have an nVidia video card, try a reg. hack:
/you can copy/paste onto NotePad & save with *.reg
extension ------------

REGEDIT4

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\NVIDIA Corporation]

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\NVIDIA Corporation\System]
"EnableIronGate4X"=dword:00000001

--------------------
could help (overrides Bios setting!) :-)



--
Regards , SPAJKY ®
mail addr. @ my site @ http://www.spajky.vze.com
3rd Ann.: - "Tualatin OC-ed / BX-Slot1 / inaudible setup!"

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking (More info?)

"Spajky" <Spajky@##volja.net> wrote in message news:lobb61p37v5hr1qoe2d1enpksnolce0bb5@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 18:54:50 GMT, "Rick" <nospam@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >Spajky, instead of running the fan at 5V or 7V, I'd like to put
> >an adapter on the SK-6 and use a 70 or 80mm fan at a lower
> >speed. Do you know if anyone makes such a thing for the
> >SK-6? Or how would I go about making one of my own?
>
> ...for making it your own, you would not need some strong
> material, IMHO 1mm hard cardboard paper could support bigger fan w/o
> problem /I´ve seen such solutions/ ...

Thanks.

> ...but even if you use your existent fan should not be problem
> running it (if starts w/o problem) @ 5V (still should run around
> 3000rpm!); my fan is smaller than yours & at 2400rpm & my Tuallie runs
> no problem really full load @ even more than 60°C from die measured.

I'm trying to keep temps under 50C at full load, since the
place we're living in now is not air-conditioned and gets
brutally hot during summer/early fall months. That's why
I opted for an older P3 instead of a P4 or Athlon system.
I don't know what the upper operating range will be until
July or August.

Also, this system is in a living room so I'm trying to keep
noise to a minimum as well.

> Surely does not need more than 7V even if machine is settled in very
> warm inviroment if airflow thru case is normal ... If does not start @
> that voltage (deltas can be problematic sometimes), there is a simple
> circuit (kick-on) on electronics section on my site too ...
> Heat is really NOT an issue with Tuallies if are really not
> pushed up too much when OC-ing....

Last year we were dealing with ambient temps over 90F
inside this apartment, during afternoon/evening hours.

> >Also, I'd like to go higher than 1.33GHz but this silly Asus
> >motherboard (TUSL2) automatically throttles back memory
> >timings and drops AGP to 2X when FSB is set to anything
> >over 140MHz. No way around it other than to use a custom
> >bios, which from what I've read lots of people have had
> >problems with.
>
> The MoBO is excellent (the best for OC stability!)
>
> ...may be that first your Ram can not handle higher
> frequencies (if having it more than 2 sticks or more than 256Mb if are
> generic PC133 ones. (my actual 2x128 sticks can not go higher than
> 142MHz, but goes at 140 cas222!) . Cpu itself IMHO could go higher if
> trying to lower Fsb/ram ratio in bios, but that I do not recommend you
> (machine would be slower!) The problem to OC further your CPU is that
> you @ default have already 133fsb & for better OC you need a heel of
> Ram (Mushin PC150 or something - too expensive & hard to find these
> days ...) Maybe would be better than trying to run higher than 140MHz
> to "squeeze" Ram latencies instead it it can handle it!

It's good quality Infineon PC133 CL2, which I've run as
high as 150fsb CL2 on another system. Also, from what
I've read, dimm slots 2&3 on the TUSL2 share power,
and having all 3 slots populated can cause instability. So
I opted for 2 x 256MB (512MB dimms are supported
on this board, but they're too expensive).

> Well about that AGP2x problem it is not a real problem, since
> in practical life having 4x you would not gain more than 5% !!! If you
> woud like to reflash bios, surely DO NOT do it from Windoze !!! Use
> instead this:
> http://users.volja.net/jerman55/FlashBiosFD.zip
>
> But if you have an nVidia video card, try a reg. hack:
> /you can copy/paste onto NotePad & save with *.reg
> extension ------------
>
> REGEDIT4
>
> [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\NVIDIA Corporation]
>
> [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\NVIDIA Corporation\System]
> "EnableIronGate4X"=dword:00000001
>
> --------------------
> could help (overrides Bios setting!) :-)

That might be true on some boards. However on the TUSL2
Asus claims AGP4X must be initialized in the system bios
before Windows' video driver takes over, or else 4X is not
enabled under any circumstance. Not that 4X is any great
leap of performance -- I know it's only ~5% but I do a fair
amount of gaming, and with the older CPU I need all the
help I can get :-)

Anyway thanks a lot for the info!

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking (More info?)

Rick wrote:

[snip]

> I'm trying to keep temps under 50C at full load, since the
> place we're living in now is not air-conditioned and gets
> brutally hot during summer/early fall months. That's why
> I opted for an older P3 instead of a P4 or Athlon system.
> I don't know what the upper operating range will be until
> July or August.

You opted for the right CPU - I wouldn't be worried ;-)

Our cottage gets brutally hot too. The PC there has a P3-S 1.4@1575Mhz
on a P2B-S (150Mhz FSB), 768MB of PC150@222, 64MB GF4 video, and 10K7
SCSI drives. I've seen heat-spreader temperatures up to 65C on hot days
(which equates to at least 70C on-die), but the system shows no signs of
instability.

> Also, this system is in a living room so I'm trying to keep
> noise to a minimum as well.

Mine lives in a mid tower case I scrounged at work, and has only CPU,
video card, and PSU exhaust fans. No case fans. Sure it gets hot in
summer, but it doesn't crash and it's quiet :-)

P2B

http://tipperlinne.com/p2bmod

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking (More info?)

On Wed, 20 Apr 2005 03:26:24 GMT, "Rick" <nospam@earthlink.net> wrote:

>I'm trying to keep temps under 50C at full load, since the
>place we're living in now is not air-conditioned and gets
>brutally hot during summer/early fall months.

>Last year we were dealing with ambient temps over 90F
>inside this apartment, during afternoon/evening hours.

than put the fan on 7V (schematics are there on my site even if you
still wanna have RPM readings w/o problem); you will loose not much in
cooling, but much on noise!

>Also, this system is in a living room so I'm trying to keep
>noise to a minimum as well.

What about some circuitry to have fans @5V during all the year & only
when amb.temps go over 25°C you svitch them to 7V
(this kind of "hot summer" switch i have in my sistem) ...

>> Surely does not need more than 7V even if machine is settled in very
>> warm inviroment if airflow thru case is normal ...

mounting an additional front case intake fan would benefit the system;
especially caps & other heating parts on MoBo & HD too!

>> [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\NVIDIA Corporation\System]
>> "EnableIronGate4X"=dword:00000001

>> could help (overrides Bios setting!) :-)
>
>That might be true on some boards. However on the TUSL2
>Asus claims AGP4X must be initialized in the system bios
>before Windows' video driver takes over, or else 4X is not
>enabled under any circumstance.

try it, maybe will work! ...
--
Regards , SPAJKY ®
mail addr. @ my site @ http://www.spajky.vze.com
3rd Ann.: - "Tualatin OC-ed / BX-Slot1 / inaudible setup!"

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking (More info?)

On Wed, 20 Apr 2005 00:41:53 -0400, P2B <p2b@sympatico.ca> wrote:

>You opted for the right CPU - I wouldn't be worried ;-)

yeah, thats true .. :-))

>Our cottage gets brutally hot too.
> I've seen heat-spreader temperatures up to 65C on hot days
>(which equates to at least 70C on-die), but the system shows no signs of
>instability.

if thats correctly measured (calibrated sensor!) thats IMHO too much
/can not touch the HS for more than a second/ (on die there should be
with your frequency around 75°C onDie); IMHO the case ventilation is
not good enough or the paste has vanished ...
When I heated my machine simulating hot summer with a hair
dryer to 35°C I did not encounter HS base temps Ë› full load more than
55°C even with fan @ 5V, so it would be better not to go higher of IHS
temp than 60°C IMHO long term ... inserting @ 7V front case fan would
help & if mounted on cutted hole w/o screws (see my way under mods)
won´t contribute noticeable on cumulative noise figure ... :-)
--
Regards , SPAJKY ®
mail addr. @ my site @ http://www.spajky.vze.com
3rd Ann.: - "Tualatin OC-ed / BX-Slot1 / inaudible setup!"

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking (More info?)

Spajky wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Apr 2005 00:41:53 -0400, P2B <p2b@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
>
>>You opted for the right CPU - I wouldn't be worried ;-)
>
>
> yeah, thats true .. :-))
>
>
>>Our cottage gets brutally hot too.
>>I've seen heat-spreader temperatures up to 65C on hot days
>>(which equates to at least 70C on-die), but the system shows no signs of
>>instability.
>
>
> if thats correctly measured (calibrated sensor!) thats IMHO too much
> /can not touch the HS for more than a second/ (on die there should be
> with your frequency around 75°C onDie); IMHO the case ventilation is
> not good enough or the paste has vanished ...

It gets that hot because the case ventilation is practically
non-existent (PSU exhaust only, as I said). The case to CPU temperature
differential remains close to constant regardless of ambient temperature
- and has not changed since I built it, so the paste should be OK.

Obviously it would run a lot cooler in summer if I added a case fan or
two, but that means more noise in the living room.

My point is the Tualatin remains stable at those elevated temperatures -
and I worry a lot more about premature failure of the 10K SCSI drives
than the CPU.

Actually, I figure that system is more likely to fail in winter since
there's no heat while we're away. The place is usually around -20C when
we arrive on Friday nights, and we proceed to light the woodstove and
warm it up to +25C as quickly as possible. This regular thermal cycling
cannot be good for the PC :-)

P2B

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking (More info?)

I don't think cycling between -20 C and 25 C when not powered up will have
an effect on the CPU or any of the electronic components. Just think of
all the exotic cooling reported in this newsgroup that cause much larger
temperature swings. Many posters here would LOVE to have the problem of
what to do with cooling air at -20 C.

Phil Weldon

"P2B" <p2b@sympatico.ca> wrote in part ...

> It gets that hot because the case ventilation is practically non-existent
> (PSU exhaust only, as I said). The case to CPU temperature differential
> remains close to constant regardless of ambient temperature - and has not
> changed since I built it, so the paste should be OK.
>
> Obviously it would run a lot cooler in summer if I added a case fan or
> two, but that means more noise in the living room.
>
> My point is the Tualatin remains stable at those elevated temperatures -
> and I worry a lot more about premature failure of the 10K SCSI drives than
> the CPU.
>
> Actually, I figure that system is more likely to fail in winter since
> there's no heat while we're away. The place is usually around -20C when we
> arrive on Friday nights, and we proceed to light the woodstove and warm it
> up to +25C as quickly as possible. This regular thermal cycling cannot be
> good for the PC :-)
>
> P2B

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking (More info?)

In the summer, try a box fan, about 20 to 24 inches rather than a side
panel for your case. Run it on the lowest speed. Or you could try a paddle
fan, a 52" Hunter original moves thousands of cu. ft. per minute, even at
the lowest speed (when it is practically silent); this fan will also keep
YOU a lot cooler. A Hunter original is expensive, but will last 75 years or
more. If you get a cheaper one, make sure the blades are not metal.

Phil Weldon


"Rick" <nospam@earthlink.net> wrote in part...
> I'm trying to keep temps under 50C at full load, since the
> place we're living in now is not air-conditioned and gets
> brutally hot during summer/early fall months. That's why
> I opted for an older P3 instead of a P4 or Athlon system.
> I don't know what the upper operating range will be until
> July or August.
>
> Also, this system is in a living room so I'm trying to keep
> noise to a minimum as well....

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking (More info?)

On Wed, 20 Apr 2005 19:41:23 -0400, P2B <p2b@sympatico.ca> wrote:

> I worry a lot more about premature failure of the 10K SCSI drives

yes especially if are newer biggest ones (expensive) ...

>Actually, I figure that system is more likely to fail in winter since
>there's no heat while we're away. The place is usually around -20C when
>we arrive on Friday nights,

the problem could be only if the electricity goes away (some snow
storm, etc.) for more than few hours; fans & especially HDs don´t like
temps under zero when started cold ... if running continuesly, no
problem ... :-) ...
--
Regards , SPAJKY ®
mail addr. @ my site @ http://www.spajky.vze.com
3rd Ann.: - "Tualatin OC-ed / BX-Slot1 / inaudible setup!"