Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd (More info?)

Hi,

Once every few years I dig into things to build me a new PC for daily
work.
What I need now is the power to work on hi-res audio (94KHz/32bit) and
8 megapixel RAW images. But most of the time I'm not a power user,
doing writing, webmastering, etc.
So what I'd like is a silent, energy efficient PC, which I can put in
high gear, only when I need that. And it would be very nice to 'switch
gears' on the fly, without rebooting and changing BIOS settings.

I'm a novice in 'clocking', but reading a lot I'd like to use a
Mobile Athlon XP 2500+ barton (or 2400+/2600+) and 2x 512Mb DDR400.
As I understand it would be best to have a motherboard where you can
set memory, bus and CPU speeds independently and can change (lower!)
Vcore voltage.
I'd like to reach sub 1GHz speeds, would be nice to get CPU power use
under 10 watts. And maybe overclock when I'm in a hurry doing pictures


So what motherboard (Socket A) to buy?
Main thing is being able to change the settings above and especially
being able to set low (1,1 volt or so) Vcore voltages, on the fly
(that's why I go for the Mobile Athlon).
And I'd like a chipset with passive cooling, no fan!
Options is not a priority, don't need 5.1 sound (use my pro card), no
RAID, only Firewire and Gigabit LAN would be welcome. But I don't mind
to buy a more expensive board (with many options), as long as I can do
the right CPU settings.

BTW, I already have a Asus A7N8X Deluxe, but I (now) understand that
is not the one to have for underclocking, after reading this article
http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/20041001/ where at
http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/2 [...] _with_what
it says "Unfortunately, it is only possible to change the multiplier
on a few motherboards. One of the fastest, the Asus A7N8X-E, crashed
every time we tried." I guess that's thru for the A7N8X Deluxe and
most NVIDIA nForce2 boards too.

Don't mind using a other chipset but maybe a MSI K7N2 Delta2-LSR could
be a nForce2 option, as I understand the MSI software 'CoreCell' and
'CoreCenter' can change BIOS settings on the fly? But I can't get
enough info (MSI not replying when asked about the range of Vcore
voltages).

Thanks for any advice,
Boyd Noorda

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd (More info?)

I think this is the one, but be sure to download the manual and see if it
has those lower voltages, and/or e-mail abit about it.

http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProd [...] 162&depa=1

I have an Asus k7v880 kt880 and also just had a kt400 Biostar. Changing
multiplier by software worked on both, but not changing voltage.

Currently I have a 35w mobile xp 2200+. It comes with top multiplier set at
12.5, so that's as high as you can go by software unless you alter the
bridges. I'm running at fsb 166. I have the bios set for default voltage,
which is 1.58v due to desktops reading it differently than laptops, and 13x
multiplier. So it starts at 2150mhz, which it can do for 8 hours in prime95
(didn't test longer). CrystalCPUID loads at Win XP startup, though, and
drops it to 500mhz. When needed it goes up through 1250 to 2083mhz (12.5x).

I have the cpu heatsink with no fan and a duct to the case fan (80mm
2350rpm). Therefore the cpu heat doesn't spread in the case. The system temp
is very low and so is the cpu temp at the slow speeds. Also, I can game at
2150 for as long as I want.

If I go to 1.65v and 2250 it gets warmer than I'd like in the summer, though
I could speed up the fan, but then it's noisy.

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Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd (More info?)

Many relevant articles here:

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article_index.php


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Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd (More info?)

I was right - Abit KV7.

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article69-page1.html


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Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd (More info?)

"Ed Light" <nobody@nobody.there> wrote in message news:<YAesd.174290$bk1.99236@fed1read05>...

> I was right - Abit KV7.
>
> http://www.silentpcreview.com/article69-page1.html

Thanks. I was looking into that one but it has a northbridge fan and
on the info page you send, there is a report about it stopping after 2
months :-/

But your other links help a lot! I'm now looking in to the 8rdavcore
program and hoping I can get a board from the list at
http://www.hasw.net/8rdavcore/
I guess that's the way to got: finding programs like that and a
motherboard that is supported.

Is there more software like that, allowing you to set multipliers and
Vcore on the fly or even automatic?

Thanks,
Boyd Noorda

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd (More info?)

"Joburgnewsdesk" <joburgnewsdesk@ddh.nl> wrote in message
news:6c49b42b.0412040803.3f19b4f4@posting.google.com...
<snip>
> Thanks. I was looking into that one but it has a northbridge fan and
> on the info page you send, there is a report about it stopping after 2
> months :-/

I've just started looking to do the same as you - build a machine based
around an underclocked XP-M. The KV7 looks like a good board but, as you
say, the fan on the northbridge is a bit of a problem for a silent setup.
The heatsink could be changed for a larger passive one but I suspect this
may cause problems with fitting a decent HSF for the CPU.

Could you let me know if you find anything particularly good? I'll do
likewise.

> Is there more software like that, allowing you to set multipliers and
> Vcore on the fly or even automatic?

Just to add - I'll be running Linux on my machine, anyone know of similar
software for Linux?

Thanks,

Michael


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Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd (More info?)

Hi all,

You know, with the later mobile processors from both camps you dont need to
worry about the chip drawing lots of power when not in use - they're
designed to work with battries!

They know the power back as soon as you scratch your ass :-)

I wouldnt go through the expense and complexity of looking into this avenue
that much.

- If its power consumption you're worried about - don't be - we're not
talking about a pentium 4 3.8 EE or a XEON. Its a mobile processor from a
company that has traditionally been very good at low power consumption

- If its noise you're worried about, you don't need to be. Modern fans and
cases really can keep even a monster processor essentially inaudible.

Good luck

:-)

TCE

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd (More info?)

I'm using crystalCPUID for changing speed according to load. But it probably
has to be a via chipset.
http://crystalmark.info/?lang=en

For non-automatic changes, cpumsr
http://www.cpuheat.wz.cz/html/CPUMSR_main.htm
and be sure to read
http://www.cpuheat.wz.cz/html/AXP_ [...] iplier.htm


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Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd (More info?)

"Michael Christie" <MichaelChristie@cswebmail.com> wrote in message news:<41b1e525$0$29746$ed2e19e4@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net>...

> I've just started looking to do the same as you - build a machine based
> around an underclocked XP-M. The KV7 looks like a good board but, as you
> say, the fan on the northbridge is a bit of a problem for a silent setup.
> The heatsink could be changed for a larger passive one but I suspect this
> may cause problems with fitting a decent HSF for the CPU.

I think so too.

> Could you let me know if you find anything particularly good? I'll do
> likewise.

Of course

Best,
Boyd

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd (More info?)

"thechaosengine" <sh856531@microsofts_free_email_service.com> wrote in message news:<C3nsd.75553$F7.11866@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>...

> You know, with the later mobile processors from both camps you dont need to
> worry about the chip drawing lots of power when not in use - they're
> designed to work with battries!
>
> They know the power back as soon as you scratch your ass :-)

Indeed, mobile versions are already using less power out of the box.
But as far as I know, there is nothing on a normal motherboard that
tells the CPU: "Hey, my user is only typing now, you should fall
asleep 99,9% of the time."

> I wouldnt go through the expense and complexity of looking into this avenue
> that much.

Hm, expense? I guess both overclocking and underclocking are a kind of
sport. But underclocking only saves money ;-)

> - If its power consumption you're worried about - don't be - we're not
> talking about a pentium 4 3.8 EE or a XEON. Its a mobile processor from a
> company that has traditionally been very good at low power consumption

Yes, they even got a price for being energy efficient. One of the
reasons I'm using AMD's since the 386.

> - If its noise you're worried about, you don't need to be. Modern fans and
> cases really can keep even a monster processor essentially inaudible.

I'm behind a PC most of my working day and beyond, so noise is
important. But it's not only noise, I really feel my energy use is a
responsibility. Why using a primitive 'fan heater' (that is what a
'modern' PC's is as a typing machine? Are we progressing, using
more and more energy for the same tasks?
I think desktops should also be designed to save energy. But companies
are not interested in our energy bills or in global warming. I am :-)

Best, Boyd

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd (More info?)

"Joburgnewsdesk" <joburgnewsdesk@ddh.nl> wrote

> But it's not only noise, I really feel my energy use is a
> responsibility.

Just how I feel as my mobile runs at 500mhz and 1.58v, which cpuheat says is
25 watts idle. When it revs up it's using twice as much and more.

If I could control the voltage by software it would idle at 15w.

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Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd (More info?)

> Indeed, mobile versions are already using less power out of the box.
> But as far as I know, there is nothing on a normal motherboard that
> tells the CPU: "Hey, my user is only typing now, you should fall
> asleep 99,9% of the time."

You're right, the motherboard doesnt support that - but nearly all modern
processors support something called stepping, whereby the processor examins
its load and ups its power level to another "step" only when it has to. When
its idle, it's on the lowst stepping. Under word processing it'll be on a
pretty low setting. Only when your gaming should you ever be going full out
and even then, full out on an MP is not the same as on a compabale desktop
processor.

I totally understand what you mean with the power consumption thing from a
good citizen point of view. I wish everyone were as thoughtful.

However, I think there are better ways to make a difference in that way. For
example, I am with a totally green electricity provider. All the power that
they give me comes from renewable sources. They are about 10 -15 percent
more expensive, but bear in mind that every penny you pay goes towards
building more farms and whats more, your not polluting the environment
whatsover. - In fact, your helping make a company succeed, that cares about
something other than making money at the expense of the planet.

I'm not meaning to be down on power companies as such. Some of them offer
green tarriffs - where by the extra money goes into green research. I'm not
convinced though. I think we know everything we need to know about it. I'd
rather my money were spent on doing something about the problem.

Anyway, I don't lose any sleep at night because my dual Opteron is on all
day. I realise that running a bath or heating my home requires far far more
power than a (new) idling desktop pc.

Good luck with whatever you decide - just bear in mind, shaving a few watts
p/h is going to be an extremely small improvement. I'd get a bitching PC and
make sure you turn things off when you're not using them. Get you're friends
to do the same.

Best of both worlds!

Take care

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd (More info?)

"thechaosengine" <sh856531@microsofts_free_email_service.com> wrote
>
> You're right, the motherboard doesnt support that - but nearly all modern
> processors support something called stepping, whereby the processor
> examins its load and ups its power level to another "step" only when it
> has to. When its idle, it's on the lowst stepping. Under word processing
> it'll be on a pretty low setting. Only when your gaming should you ever be
> going full out and even then, full out on an MP is not the same as on a
> compabale desktop processor.

It won't throttle down without software running to tell it to. If cpus were
doing what you say, they would run very cool at idle, no matter what the
speed at load.

>shaving a few watts p/h is going to be an extremely small improvement.

If every pc ran at 500mhz, 1.2v, most of the time, then compared to a Tbred
2000+ they would save about 40 watts each, which would add up to a massive
collective energy savings. If everyone converted theirs ... oh well, they
can't, but that doesn't mean that nobody should. One can tell two who can
each tell two -- could add up fast.


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Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd (More info?)

> > You're right, the motherboard doesnt support that - but nearly all
modern
> > processors support something called stepping, whereby the processor
> > examins its load and ups its power level to another "step" only when it
> > has to. When its idle, it's on the lowst stepping. Under word processing
> > it'll be on a pretty low setting. Only when your gaming should you ever
be
> > going full out and even then, full out on an MP is not the same as on a
> > compabale desktop processor.
>
> It won't throttle down without software running to tell it to. If cpus
were
> doing what you say, they would run very cool at idle, no matter what the
> speed at load.

Actually, he's right. The software that tells the CPU to "hang chill", so
to speak, is the OS. Do a google search for "windows athlon hlt", and read
more for yourself. Every modern OS (even windows after the 9x series,
although it sometimes needs some coaxing) will issue a HLT instruction when
there's nothing to be scheduled, and the CPU will hang out. During the 9x
series, there were various programs developped which would issue the HLT
instruction when needed.

So, why don't processers run near room temperature when they're idle?
Well, there's a by-product of making transistors smaller: In the "off"
state, more current leaks through them, and is called the "leakage current".
This is especially true of the transistor design used in chips lik