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Ok, maybe watercooling the power supply was not a good idea.

It certainly kept the power transistors with the big heatsinks cool, but what of the poor little diodes and a transformer, which didn't get the airflow they expected?

Been working fine for a few weeks, then suddenly..... about 15 bangs, flashes, sparks etc flew out of it, as though I had lit an entire box of fireworks under the desk. Strangely the PC continued to run while this happened (for about 10 seconds, at which point the PSU gave up and it went off. Fuses all intact! Replaced the PSU, and the PC booted ok! Just one drive of the mirror/stripe appeared to be blank/corrupted, but it's autorebuilding it in the background.

http://80.229.155.158/temp/psufail


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WaterCooling keeps the CPU and what ever else it's connected to cool..
So you dont have 45/50c air feeing the bottom of the heatsink..

That means that the PSU shouldnt have required tons of airflow.. It looks to
me like the psu just fail'd (short in transformer)..

Case Circulation is good to have anyhow when you have a few harddrives in
the system..


"Peter Hucker" <hucker@clara.co.uk> wrote in message
newspsbhnptolaiowgp@blue...
> Ok, maybe watercooling the power supply was not a good idea.
>
> It certainly kept the power transistors with the big heatsinks cool, but
what of the poor little diodes and a transformer, which didn't get the
airflow they expected?
>
> Been working fine for a few weeks, then suddenly..... about 15 bangs,
flashes, sparks etc flew out of it, as though I had lit an entire box of
fireworks under the desk. Strangely the PC continued to run while this
happened (for about 10 seconds, at which point the PSU gave up and it went
off. Fuses all intact! Replaced the PSU, and the PC booted ok! Just one
drive of the mirror/stripe appeared to be blank/corrupted, but it's
autorebuilding it in the background.
>
> http://80.229.155.158/temp/psufail
>
>
> --
> *****TWO BABY CONURES***** 15 parrots and increasing
http://www.petersparrots.com
> 93 silly video clips http://www.insanevideoclips.com
> 1259 digital photos http://www.petersphotos.com
> Served from a pentawatercooled dual silent Athlon 2.8 with terrabyte raid
>
> Polynesia -- memory loss in parrots.

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That's one hell of a failure. I thought I was maybe overloading it, but I'm using 200W peak, and it was a 300W supply.

Anyway I've sourced a fanless one for £120....

On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 14:32:50 GMT, rstlne <.@text.news.virgin.net> wrote:

> WaterCooling keeps the CPU and what ever else it's connected to cool..
> So you dont have 45/50c air feeing the bottom of the heatsink..
>
> That means that the PSU shouldnt have required tons of airflow.. It looks to
> me like the psu just fail'd (short in transformer)..
>
> Case Circulation is good to have anyhow when you have a few harddrives in
> the system..
>
>
> "Peter Hucker" <hucker@clara.co.uk> wrote in message
> newspsbhnptolaiowgp@blue...
>> Ok, maybe watercooling the power supply was not a good idea.
>>
>> It certainly kept the power transistors with the big heatsinks cool, but
> what of the poor little diodes and a transformer, which didn't get the
> airflow they expected?
>>
>> Been working fine for a few weeks, then suddenly..... about 15 bangs,
> flashes, sparks etc flew out of it, as though I had lit an entire box of
> fireworks under the desk. Strangely the PC continued to run while this
> happened (for about 10 seconds, at which point the PSU gave up and it went
> off. Fuses all intact! Replaced the PSU, and the PC booted ok! Just one
> drive of the mirror/stripe appeared to be blank/corrupted, but it's
> autorebuilding it in the background.
>>
>> http://80.229.155.158/temp/psufail
>>
>>
>> --
>> *****TWO BABY CONURES***** 15 parrots and increasing
> http://www.petersparrots.com
>> 93 silly video clips http://www.insanevideoclips.com
>> 1259 digital photos http://www.petersphotos.com
>> Served from a pentawatercooled dual silent Athlon 2.8 with terrabyte raid
>>
>> Polynesia -- memory loss in parrots.
>
>
>



--
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1259 digital photos http://www.petersphotos.com
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"Peter Hucker" <hucker@clara.co.uk> wrote in message
newspsbhqrth3aiowgp@blue...
> That's one hell of a failure. I thought I was maybe overloading it, but
I'm using 200W peak, and it was a 300W supply.
>
> Anyway I've sourced a fanless one for £120....
>


Yea, I have seen some nice new fanless ones out there in the market..
Tho to be honest I woulda probably been more tempted to just mount a couple
of NB coolers on the heatsinks inside the PSU itself (sure it could be
done).

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On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 16:30:16 GMT, rstlne <.@text.news.virgin.net> wrote:

>
> "Peter Hucker" <hucker@clara.co.uk> wrote in message
> newspsbhqrth3aiowgp@blue...
>> That's one hell of a failure. I thought I was maybe overloading it, but
> I'm using 200W peak, and it was a 300W supply.
>>
>> Anyway I've sourced a fanless one for £120....
>>
>
>
> Yea, I have seen some nice new fanless ones out there in the market..
> Tho to be honest I woulda probably been more tempted to just mount a couple
> of NB coolers on the heatsinks inside the PSU itself (sure it could be
> done).

NB?

I DID mount coolers on the heatsinks. But I think more than that needed cooling.



--
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"Peter Hucker" <hucker@clara.co.uk> wrote in message
newspsbhu1umfaiowgp@blue...
> On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 16:30:16 GMT, rstlne <.@text.news.virgin.net> wrote:
>
> >
> > "Peter Hucker" <hucker@clara.co.uk> wrote in message
> > newspsbhqrth3aiowgp@blue...
> >> That's one hell of a failure. I thought I was maybe overloading it,
but
> > I'm using 200W peak, and it was a 300W supply.
> >>
> >> Anyway I've sourced a fanless one for £120....
> >>
> >
> >
> > Yea, I have seen some nice new fanless ones out there in the market..
> > Tho to be honest I woulda probably been more tempted to just mount a
couple
> > of NB coolers on the heatsinks inside the PSU itself (sure it could be
> > done).
>
> NB?
>
> I DID mount coolers on the heatsinks. But I think more than that needed
cooling.
>

Ahhhh
yea I see what you did now
...
Yea you probably needed a verry small airflow.. But nearly all of the heat
comes from those 5/6 (or 8/9 on some) amps that are connected to the 2
(sometimes 3) sinks..

I find it verry strange myself, Are you sure that there wasnt any leaking or
that even there wasnt possilbly metal shavings inside the unit after
installing the blocks?

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"Peter Hucker" <hucker@clara.co.uk> wrote in message
newspsbhnptolaiowgp@blue...
> Ok, maybe watercooling the power supply was not a good idea.
>
> It certainly kept the power transistors with the big heatsinks cool, but
what of the poor little diodes and a transformer, which didn't get the
airflow they expected?
>
> Been working fine for a few weeks, then suddenly..... about 15 bangs,
flashes, sparks etc flew out of it, as though I had lit an entire box of
fireworks under the desk. Strangely the PC continued to run while this
happened (for about 10 seconds, at which point the PSU gave up and it went
off. Fuses all intact! Replaced the PSU, and the PC booted ok! Just one
drive of the mirror/stripe appeared to be blank/corrupted, but it's
autorebuilding it in the background.
>
> http://80.229.155.158/temp/psufail
>
Watercooling in a power supply...
You must be crazy, my friend !!! And very lucky, having so
little damage.
For the same price, you could have your motherboard, CPU, RAM, graphic card
and even disks completely destroyed.
On top, if your PSU is powerful enough for your hardware configuration,
there is absolutely no need for extra cooling in a normal case with normal
air flow.

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On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 18:16:50 GMT, ElJerid <s.vanderhaeghen.nospam@pandora.be> wrote:

>
> "Peter Hucker" <hucker@clara.co.uk> wrote in message
> newspsbhnptolaiowgp@blue...
>> Ok, maybe watercooling the power supply was not a good idea.
>>
>> It certainly kept the power transistors with the big heatsinks cool, but
> what of the poor little diodes and a transformer, which didn't get the
> airflow they expected?
>>
>> Been working fine for a few weeks, then suddenly..... about 15 bangs,
> flashes, sparks etc flew out of it, as though I had lit an entire box of
> fireworks under the desk. Strangely the PC continued to run while this
> happened (for about 10 seconds, at which point the PSU gave up and it went
> off. Fuses all intact! Replaced the PSU, and the PC booted ok! Just one
> drive of the mirror/stripe appeared to be blank/corrupted, but it's
> autorebuilding it in the background.
>>
>> http://80.229.155.158/temp/psufail
>>
> Watercooling in a power supply...
> You must be crazy, my friend !!! And very lucky, having so
> little damage.
> For the same price, you could have your motherboard, CPU, RAM, graphic card
> and even disks completely destroyed.

Well one disk in my mirror stripe became corrupt, but it's autorebuilding it in the background.

> On top, if your PSU is powerful enough for your hardware configuration,
> there is absolutely no need for extra cooling in a normal case with normal
> air flow.

What do you mean no need for extra cooling? I was trying to use no fans!



--
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93 silly video clips http://www.insanevideoclips.com
1259 digital photos http://www.petersphotos.com
Served from a pentawatercooled dual silent Athlon 2.8 with terrabyte raid

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"Peter Hucker" <hucker@clara.co.uk> wrote in message news:<opsbhnptolaiowgp@blue>...

> Ok, maybe watercooling the power supply was not a good idea.
>
> It certainly kept the power transistors with the big heatsinks
> cool, but what of the poor little diodes and a transformer,
> which didn't get the airflow they expected?
>
> Been working fine for a few weeks, then suddenly..... about
> 15 bangs, flashes, sparks etc flew out of it, as though I had
> lit an entire box of fireworks under the desk. Strangely the
> PC continued to run while this happened (for about 10 seconds,
> at which point the PSU gave up and it went off. Fuses all
> intact! Replaced the PSU, and the PC booted ok! Just one
> drive of the mirror/stripe appeared to be blank/corrupted,
> but it's autorebuilding it in the background.
>
> http://80.229.155.158/temp/psufail

PSUFAIL1.JPG seems to show an LM339, a voltage comparator and not a
chip that normally handles high amounts of power. So I believe it
failed due to excessive voltage, not heat. That's not to say that the
high voltage wasn't caused by excessive heat somewhere else, and the
burned capacitor in PSUFAIL3.JPG could indicate that the main
transformeer got too hot and saturated, which can cause the current
through its coupling capacitor to increase greatly. I'm not sure what
PSUFAIL2.JPG is, but it looks like a transformer, and in PSUFAIL4.JPG,
it's possible that heavily-burned resistor R7 is either a load
resistor (some power supplies won't start without one, and excessive
voltage can burn it out) or part of a snubber (filter to eliminate
unwanted oscillations -- too much oscillation can burn it out).

In the process of testing the water cooling, did you put a temperature
probe on each of the power components? This can be risky because of
the high voltage, but there are probes with metal exposed only at the
tip, or for the more daring a dial thermometer (like a meat
thermometer) can be used if it's covered with a few layers of
heatshrink tubing. Transformer saturation is a big concern among
power supply designers, and heat makes them saturate at lower power
levels.

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On 21 Jul 2004 13:21:24 -0700, do_not_spam_me <do_not_spam_me@my-deja.com> wrote:

> "Peter Hucker" <hucker@clara.co.uk> wrote in message news:<opsbhnptolaiowgp@blue>...
>
>> Ok, maybe watercooling the power supply was not a good idea.
>>
>> It certainly kept the power transistors with the big heatsinks
>> cool, but what of the poor little diodes and a transformer,
>> which didn't get the airflow they expected?
>>
>> Been working fine for a few weeks, then suddenly..... about
>> 15 bangs, flashes, sparks etc flew out of it, as though I had
>> lit an entire box of fireworks under the desk. Strangely the
>> PC continued to run while this happened (for about 10 seconds,
>> at which point the PSU gave up and it went off. Fuses all
>> intact! Replaced the PSU, and the PC booted ok! Just one
>> drive of the mirror/stripe appeared to be blank/corrupted,
>> but it's autorebuilding it in the background.
>>
>> http://80.229.155.158/temp/psufail
>
> PSUFAIL1.JPG seems to show an LM339, a voltage comparator and not a
> chip that normally handles high amounts of power. So I believe it
> failed due to excessive voltage, not heat. That's not to say that the
> high voltage wasn't caused by excessive heat somewhere else, and the
> burned capacitor in PSUFAIL3.JPG could indicate that the main
> transformeer got too hot and saturated, which can cause the current
> through its coupling capacitor to increase greatly. I'm not sure what
> PSUFAIL2.JPG is, but it looks like a transformer, and in PSUFAIL4.JPG,
> it's possible that heavily-burned resistor R7 is either a load
> resistor (some power supplies won't start without one, and excessive
> voltage can burn it out) or part of a snubber (filter to eliminate
> unwanted oscillations -- too much oscillation can burn it out).
>
> In the process of testing the water cooling, did you put a temperature
> probe on each of the power components? This can be risky because of
> the high voltage, but there are probes with metal exposed only at the
> tip, or for the more daring a dial thermometer (like a meat
> thermometer) can be used if it's covered with a few layers of
> heatshrink tubing. Transformer saturation is a big concern among
> power supply designers, and heat makes them saturate at lower power
> levels.

I checked the heatsink temperatures with my finger. Didn't think anything else would need it.




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On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 14:32:50 GMT, "rstlne"
<.@text.news.virgin.net> wrote:

>WaterCooling keeps the CPU and what ever else it's connected to cool..
>So you dont have 45/50c air feeing the bottom of the heatsink..


Completely untrue.
Water cooling keeps ONLY the part under the water block cool.
"Almost" every other part of the system (which has heat needing
removed) will run hotter because there is the incorrect
assumption that water cooling reduces need for aux airflow.

Even water cooling a CPU is pointless except very extreme
environments or for max o'c. You still need a fan in roughly
same area to cool motherboard power regulators.

Water cooling CPU will not reduce temp of "what ever else it's
connected to" by any significant amount. The only way it could
do so would be by reducing heat 'sunk though the CPU pins to the
socket, but any other (relatively) temp-sensitive component is
far removed from that heat path. For example, you won't find any
electrolytic capacitors inside a socket well... not that they'd
be needed there, but there are multiple reasons.


>
>That means that the PSU shouldnt have required tons of airflow.. It looks to
>me like the psu just fail'd (short in transformer)..

Nope, it is true that PSU might've required "slightly" less
airflow but only because it's incoming air was a few degrees
cooler, since CPU heat was removed in a path other than drawing
that heat(ed air) up though PSU. Lower temp air though PSU means
lower volume is needed for same temp drop.

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On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 16:30:16 GMT, "rstlne"
<.@text.news.virgin.net> wrote:

>
>"Peter Hucker" <hucker@clara.co.uk> wrote in message
>newspsbhqrth3aiowgp@blue...
>> That's one hell of a failure. I thought I was maybe overloading it, but
>I'm using 200W peak, and it was a 300W supply.
>>
>> Anyway I've sourced a fanless one for £120....
>>
>
>
>Yea, I have seen some nice new fanless ones out there in the market..
>Tho to be honest I woulda probably been more tempted to just mount a couple
>of NB coolers on the heatsinks inside the PSU itself (sure it could be
>done).
>

Nope, there are ZERO nice new fanless ones.
The highest quality, best specs and longest lasting PSU are all
actively cooled. Effective passive cooling for a modern system
will require such large passive 'sinks that it won't come near
fitting into a PS/2 size allocation per the PSU casing or system
chassis. Best attempt is when huge fins stick out the back of
system, but even then there is no chance PSU will last as long
unless quite specifically made with different spec and type
components inside, which none have been due to greater cost.

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On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 16:38:08 +0100, "Peter Hucker"
<hucker@clara.co.uk> wrote:


>> Yea, I have seen some nice new fanless ones out there in the market..
>> Tho to be honest I woulda probably been more tempted to just mount a couple
>> of NB coolers on the heatsinks inside the PSU itself (sure it could be
>> done).
>
>NB?
>
>I DID mount coolers on the heatsinks. But I think more than that needed cooling.

Yes, the best solution would've been to simply leave the power
supply alone and install a lower flow fan, with rear grill
removed, then mod the REST of the system case to provide positive
pressurization that forces more air though the power supply.

Your conclusion was correct that there's more to cooling a power
supply than just keeping the regulators cool.