Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

It may be a coincidence, but since applying Micros**t's SP2 to XP
Home, the on-board LAN won't work in my A7V8X.

Network settings do not seem to be an issue as I put in a real cheapo
PCI LAN card I had lying around and that works just fine.

Everything connects to a Netgear DG834 ADSL modem/router.

Two other PCs on the same network, both with on-board LAN, work just
fine.

Anyone with this board who has upgraded successfully?



_______________________________________________________________________
Michael Kenward Words for sale

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

kenward@ukgateway.net wrote:

> It may be a coincidence, but since applying Micros**t's SP2 to XP
> Home, the on-board LAN won't work in my A7V8X.
>
> Network settings do not seem to be an issue as I put in a real cheapo
> PCI LAN card I had lying around and that works just fine.
>
> Everything connects to a Netgear DG834 ADSL modem/router.
>
> Two other PCs on the same network, both with on-board LAN, work just
> fine.
>
> Anyone with this board who has upgraded successfully?
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> Michael Kenward Words for sale

Hmm, this is sounding more than a coincidence. I have Windows 2000 installed
on my A7V8X and I have been having similar problems for the last couple of
months. At boot up the system reports that the 'network cable is unplugged'

I've not been bothered by it really as it is very rare that I venture onto
the net under Windows, preferring to use Linux instead (no issues with the
port there, so it seems to be Windows related). It has been a minor
annoyance once or twice though.

I have noticed that if the machine is powered off properly, ie switched off
at the plug the port will work upon reboot....does yours do this?

OK...it may not be much help, but we can compare notes at least!

Karl

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

On Sat, 14 Aug 2004 15:55:35 GMT, Karl <karl.muddiman@ntlworld.com>
wrote:

>kenward@ukgateway.net wrote:
>
>> It may be a coincidence, but since applying Micros**t's SP2 to XP
>> Home, the on-board LAN won't work in my A7V8X.
>>
>> Network settings do not seem to be an issue as I put in a real cheapo
>> PCI LAN card I had lying around and that works just fine.
>>
>> Everything connects to a Netgear DG834 ADSL modem/router.
>>
>> Two other PCs on the same network, both with on-board LAN, work just
>> fine.
>>
>> Anyone with this board who has upgraded successfully?
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________________________________
>> Michael Kenward Words for sale
>
>Hmm, this is sounding more than a coincidence. I have Windows 2000 installed
>on my A7V8X and I have been having similar problems for the last couple of
>months. At boot up the system reports that the 'network cable is unplugged'
>
>I've not been bothered by it really as it is very rare that I venture onto
>the net under Windows, preferring to use Linux instead (no issues with the
>port there, so it seems to be Windows related). It has been a minor
>annoyance once or twice though.
>
>I have noticed that if the machine is powered off properly, ie switched off
>at the plug the port will work upon reboot....does yours do this?
>
>OK...it may not be much help, but we can compare notes at least!
>
>Karl


I *think* I have tried that but will have another go.

I should add that I have spotted other reports of the same phenomenon
on one of the XP newsgroups. And it has nothing to do with the Asus
hardware. These people have it with all sorts of kit.

Looks like an SP2 thing. So probably not relevant to you.




_______________________________________________________________________
Michael Kenward Words for sale

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

What exactly happens?
Can you ping other computers on the same network?
- if not then you likely have an IP Addressing problem.
- if the other computers are running SP2 then they may be too tightly
firewalled.
Can you see other computers when you search for them?
(My computer, Search, Computers...)
Can you browse shared folders on other computers?
(Try mapping a network drive to a shared folder on another computer).

There are many possible problems and causes and without further information
it is a little difficult to make headway.

Don't forget that SP2 has a firewall included. This firewall blocks
unsolicited incoming traffic on each machine. Have you looked at the
firewall config, tried turning off the firewall (while the internet is
disconnected)? Does it work then? If so you need to configure your *new*
firewall to allow the services you want to provide. Go into Control Panel,
Windows Firewall, Exceptions, and to start off with tick File and Printer
sharing.

- You can see I am running under the assumption that it is nothing to do
with your motherboard...

HTH
- Tim



<kenward@ukgateway.net> wrote in message
news:mt4sh0d96tdk46klf769chbu4rsdo2rtt1@4ax.com...
> It may be a coincidence, but since applying Micros**t's SP2 to XP
> Home, the on-board LAN won't work in my A7V8X.
>
> Network settings do not seem to be an issue as I put in a real cheapo
> PCI LAN card I had lying around and that works just fine.
>
> Everything connects to a Netgear DG834 ADSL modem/router.
>
> Two other PCs on the same network, both with on-board LAN, work just
> fine.
>
> Anyone with this board who has upgraded successfully?
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> Michael Kenward Words for sale

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

"Tim" <Tim@NoSpam.com> wrote in message news:cfmnbl$9ah$1@lust.ihug.co.nz...
> What exactly happens?
> Can you ping other computers on the same network?
> - if not then you likely have an IP Addressing problem.
> - if the other computers are running SP2 then they may be too tightly
> firewalled.
> Can you see other computers when you search for them?
> (My computer, Search, Computers...)
> Can you browse shared folders on other computers?
> (Try mapping a network drive to a shared folder on another computer).
>
> There are many possible problems and causes and without further information
> it is a little difficult to make headway.
>
> Don't forget that SP2 has a firewall included. This firewall blocks
> unsolicited incoming traffic on each machine. Have you looked at the
> firewall config, tried turning off the firewall (while the internet is
> disconnected)? Does it work then? If so you need to configure your *new*
> firewall to allow the services you want to provide. Go into Control Panel,
> Windows Firewall, Exceptions, and to start off with tick File and Printer
> sharing.
>
> - You can see I am running under the assumption that it is nothing to do
> with your motherboard...

What's more, SP2 turns on the ICF firewall, even if it had been off
before. So the first thing to try is to turn it off.

RayO

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

I have absolutely no problems with a different LAN link in the same
machine.

I change nothing between the two. I can just pull the plug from one
and plug in the other. One works, the other doesn't.

Would this be possible if there were some sort of firewall issue?

MK




On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 16:06:01 +1200, "Tim" <Tim@NoSpam.com> wrote:

>What exactly happens?
>Can you ping other computers on the same network?
>- if not then you likely have an IP Addressing problem.
>- if the other computers are running SP2 then they may be too tightly
>firewalled.
>Can you see other computers when you search for them?
>(My computer, Search, Computers...)
>Can you browse shared folders on other computers?
>(Try mapping a network drive to a shared folder on another computer).
>
>There are many possible problems and causes and without further information
>it is a little difficult to make headway.
>
>Don't forget that SP2 has a firewall included. This firewall blocks
>unsolicited incoming traffic on each machine. Have you looked at the
>firewall config, tried turning off the firewall (while the internet is
>disconnected)? Does it work then? If so you need to configure your *new*
>firewall to allow the services you want to provide. Go into Control Panel,
>Windows Firewall, Exceptions, and to start off with tick File and Printer
>sharing.
>
>- You can see I am running under the assumption that it is nothing to do
>with your motherboard...
>
>HTH
>- Tim
>
>
>
><kenward@ukgateway.net> wrote in message
>news:mt4sh0d96tdk46klf769chbu4rsdo2rtt1@4ax.com...
>> It may be a coincidence, but since applying Micros**t's SP2 to XP
>> Home, the on-board LAN won't work in my A7V8X.
>>
>> Network settings do not seem to be an issue as I put in a real cheapo
>> PCI LAN card I had lying around and that works just fine.
>>
>> Everything connects to a Netgear DG834 ADSL modem/router.
>>
>> Two other PCs on the same network, both with on-board LAN, work just
>> fine.
>>
>> Anyone with this board who has upgraded successfully?
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________________________________
>> Michael Kenward Words for sale
>

_______________________________________________________________________
Michael Kenward Words for sale

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

Possibly not, but then the NIC on your mobo could have the wrong static IP
address or subnet assigned to it and another NIC added in may be picking up
a valid DHCP assigned address. That would explain it.

You aren't giving us any details to go on.

How about the firewall log, details of your ip addresses, subnet masks, f/w
config etc.

I have not heard of any NIC issues on these mobos. Are you using the correct
driver?

- Tim


<kenward@ukgateway.net> wrote in message
news:jn9uh0ddp7ma70rujci6gel1ev4ugt87sc@4ax.com...
>
> I have absolutely no problems with a different LAN link in the same
> machine.
>
> I change nothing between the two. I can just pull the plug from one
> and plug in the other. One works, the other doesn't.
>
> Would this be possible if there were some sort of firewall issue?
>
> MK
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 16:06:01 +1200, "Tim" <Tim@NoSpam.com> wrote:
>
>>What exactly happens?
>>Can you ping other computers on the same network?
>>- if not then you likely have an IP Addressing problem.
>>- if the other computers are running SP2 then they may be too tightly
>>firewalled.
>>Can you see other computers when you search for them?
>>(My computer, Search, Computers...)
>>Can you browse shared folders on other computers?
>>(Try mapping a network drive to a shared folder on another computer).
>>
>>There are many possible problems and causes and without further
>>information
>>it is a little difficult to make headway.
>>
>>Don't forget that SP2 has a firewall included. This firewall blocks
>>unsolicited incoming traffic on each machine. Have you looked at the
>>firewall config, tried turning off the firewall (while the internet is
>>disconnected)? Does it work then? If so you need to configure your *new*
>>firewall to allow the services you want to provide. Go into Control Panel,
>>Windows Firewall, Exceptions, and to start off with tick File and Printer
>>sharing.
>>
>>- You can see I am running under the assumption that it is nothing to do
>>with your motherboard...
>>
>>HTH
>>- Tim
>>
>>
>>
>><kenward@ukgateway.net> wrote in message
>>news:mt4sh0d96tdk46klf769chbu4rsdo2rtt1@4ax.com...
>>> It may be a coincidence, but since applying Micros**t's SP2 to XP
>>> Home, the on-board LAN won't work in my A7V8X.
>>>
>>> Network settings do not seem to be an issue as I put in a real cheapo
>>> PCI LAN card I had lying around and that works just fine.
>>>
>>> Everything connects to a Netgear DG834 ADSL modem/router.
>>>
>>> Two other PCs on the same network, both with on-board LAN, work just
>>> fine.
>>>
>>> Anyone with this board who has upgraded successfully?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>> Michael Kenward Words for sale
>>
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> Michael Kenward Words for sale

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

I installed it with no problems. Have you tried resetting your router
or DSL/Cable modem?

kenward@ukgateway.net wrote:

> Anyone with this board who has upgraded successfully?

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

Yes. Router rebooted. No change.

Thanks all the same.

MK



On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 10:15:25 -0500, "Marc B." <noneof@your.biz> wrote:

>I installed it with no problems. Have you tried resetting your router
>or DSL/Cable modem?
>
>kenward@ukgateway.net wrote:
>
>> Anyone with this board who has upgraded successfully?

_______________________________________________________________________
Michael Kenward Words for sale

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

I didn't provide excessive detail because I find that it is better to
home in on the important stuff rather than to scatter around possibly
irrelevant details.

I have just tried a new one. I plugged both network connections in at
the same time. This makes it easier to rule out things. Like the
firewall for example.

I have confirmed something that I sort of suspected from before. The
IP address assigned to the network connection seems wrong.

For some reason it has set it at 169.254.231.70 submask 255.255.0.0

The one that works is as expected 192,168.0.5 and 255.255.255.0

MK








On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 21:32:44 +1200, "Tim" <Tim@NoSpam.com> wrote:

>Possibly not, but then the NIC on your mobo could have the wrong static IP
>address or subnet assigned to it and another NIC added in may be picking up
>a valid DHCP assigned address. That would explain it.
>
>You aren't giving us any details to go on.
>
>How about the firewall log, details of your ip addresses, subnet masks, f/w
>config etc.
>
>I have not heard of any NIC issues on these mobos. Are you using the correct
>driver?
>
>- Tim
>
>
><kenward@ukgateway.net> wrote in message
>news:jn9uh0ddp7ma70rujci6gel1ev4ugt87sc@4ax.com...
>>
>> I have absolutely no problems with a different LAN link in the same
>> machine.
>>
>> I change nothing between the two. I can just pull the plug from one
>> and plug in the other. One works, the other doesn't.
>>
>> Would this be possible if there were some sort of firewall issue?
>>
>> MK
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 16:06:01 +1200, "Tim" <Tim@NoSpam.com> wrote:
>>
>>>What exactly happens?
>>>Can you ping other computers on the same network?
>>>- if not then you likely have an IP Addressing problem.
>>>- if the other computers are running SP2 then they may be too tightly
>>>firewalled.
>>>Can you see other computers when you search for them?
>>>(My computer, Search, Computers...)
>>>Can you browse shared folders on other computers?
>>>(Try mapping a network drive to a shared folder on another computer).
>>>
>>>There are many possible problems and causes and without further
>>>information
>>>it is a little difficult to make headway.
>>>
>>>Don't forget that SP2 has a firewall included. This firewall blocks
>>>unsolicited incoming traffic on each machine. Have you looked at the
>>>firewall config, tried turning off the firewall (while the internet is
>>>disconnected)? Does it work then? If so you need to configure your *new*
>>>firewall to allow the services you want to provide. Go into Control Panel,
>>>Windows Firewall, Exceptions, and to start off with tick File and Printer
>>>sharing.
>>>
>>>- You can see I am running under the assumption that it is nothing to do
>>>with your motherboard...
>>>
>>>HTH
>>>- Tim
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>><kenward@ukgateway.net> wrote in message
>>>news:mt4sh0d96tdk46klf769chbu4rsdo2rtt1@4ax.com...
>>>> It may be a coincidence, but since applying Micros**t's SP2 to XP
>>>> Home, the on-board LAN won't work in my A7V8X.
>>>>
>>>> Network settings do not seem to be an issue as I put in a real cheapo
>>>> PCI LAN card I had lying around and that works just fine.
>>>>
>>>> Everything connects to a Netgear DG834 ADSL modem/router.
>>>>
>>>> Two other PCs on the same network, both with on-board LAN, work just
>>>> fine.
>>>>
>>>> Anyone with this board who has upgraded successfully?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>> Michael Kenward Words for sale
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________________________________
>> Michael Kenward Words for sale
>

_______________________________________________________________________
Michael Kenward Words for sale

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

Ok, it was your IP config then.

Its easy to jump in and suspect a new patch / service pack / anything. But
in the process of gathering evidence one will often find the answer as you
have done.

From the perspective of answering queries such as this, relevant details are
important from the start.

- Tim

<kenward@ukgateway.net> wrote in message
news:sc9vh0hgiaagfvqcr0i6brmc2dugs4llsn@4ax.com...
>I didn't provide excessive detail because I find that it is better to
> home in on the important stuff rather than to scatter around possibly
> irrelevant details.
>
> I have just tried a new one. I plugged both network connections in at
> the same time. This makes it easier to rule out things. Like the
> firewall for example.
>
> I have confirmed something that I sort of suspected from before. The
> IP address assigned to the network connection seems wrong.
>
> For some reason it has set it at 169.254.231.70 submask 255.255.0.0
>
> The one that works is as expected 192,168.0.5 and 255.255.255.0
>
> MK
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 21:32:44 +1200, "Tim" <Tim@NoSpam.com> wrote:
>
>>Possibly not, but then the NIC on your mobo could have the wrong static IP
>>address or subnet assigned to it and another NIC added in may be picking
>>up
>>a valid DHCP assigned address. That would explain it.
>>
>>You aren't giving us any details to go on.
>>
>>How about the firewall log, details of your ip addresses, subnet masks,
>>f/w
>>config etc.
>>
>>I have not heard of any NIC issues on these mobos. Are you using the
>>correct
>>driver?
>>
>>- Tim
>>
>>
>><kenward@ukgateway.net> wrote in message
>>news:jn9uh0ddp7ma70rujci6gel1ev4ugt87sc@4ax.com...
>>>
>>> I have absolutely no problems with a different LAN link in the same
>>> machine.
>>>
>>> I change nothing between the two. I can just pull the plug from one
>>> and plug in the other. One works, the other doesn't.
>>>
>>> Would this be possible if there were some sort of firewall issue?
>>>
>>> MK
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 16:06:01 +1200, "Tim" <Tim@NoSpam.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>What exactly happens?
>>>>Can you ping other computers on the same network?
>>>>- if not then you likely have an IP Addressing problem.
>>>>- if the other computers are running SP2 then they may be too tightly
>>>>firewalled.
>>>>Can you see other computers when you search for them?
>>>>(My computer, Search, Computers...)
>>>>Can you browse shared folders on other computers?
>>>>(Try mapping a network drive to a shared folder on another computer).
>>>>
>>>>There are many possible problems and causes and without further
>>>>information
>>>>it is a little difficult to make headway.
>>>>
>>>>Don't forget that SP2 has a firewall included. This firewall blocks
>>>>unsolicited incoming traffic on each machine. Have you looked at the
>>>>firewall config, tried turning off the firewall (while the internet is
>>>>disconnected)? Does it work then? If so you need to configure your *new*
>>>>firewall to allow the services you want to provide. Go into Control
>>>>Panel,
>>>>Windows Firewall, Exceptions, and to start off with tick File and
>>>>Printer
>>>>sharing.
>>>>
>>>>- You can see I am running under the assumption that it is nothing to do
>>>>with your motherboard...
>>>>
>>>>HTH
>>>>- Tim
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>><kenward@ukgateway.net> wrote in message
>>>>news:mt4sh0d96tdk46klf769chbu4rsdo2rtt1@4ax.com...
>>>>> It may be a coincidence, but since applying Micros**t's SP2 to XP
>>>>> Home, the on-board LAN won't work in my A7V8X.
>>>>>
>>>>> Network settings do not seem to be an issue as I put in a real cheapo
>>>>> PCI LAN card I had lying around and that works just fine.
>>>>>
>>>>> Everything connects to a Netgear DG834 ADSL modem/router.
>>>>>
>>>>> Two other PCs on the same network, both with on-board LAN, work just
>>>>> fine.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyone with this board who has upgraded successfully?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>>> Michael Kenward Words for
>>>>> sale
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>> Michael Kenward Words for sale
>>
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> Michael Kenward Words for sale

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

While I appreciate your lessons in how to live my life, they don't
actually get me anywhere.

Thanks all the same. Every group needs its resident dictator.

Mk




On Mon, 16 Aug 2004 11:10:11 +1200, "Tim" <Tim@NoSpam.com> wrote:

>Ok, it was your IP config then.
>
>Its easy to jump in and suspect a new patch / service pack / anything. But
>in the process of gathering evidence one will often find the answer as you
>have done.
>
>From the perspective of answering queries such as this, relevant details are
>important from the start.
>
>- Tim
>
><kenward@ukgateway.net> wrote in message
>news:sc9vh0hgiaagfvqcr0i6brmc2dugs4llsn@4ax.com...
>>I didn't provide excessive detail because I find that it is better to
>> home in on the important stuff rather than to scatter around possibly
>> irrelevant details.
>>
>> I have just tried a new one. I plugged both network connections in at
>> the same time. This makes it easier to rule out things. Like the
>> firewall for example.
>>
>> I have confirmed something that I sort of suspected from before. The
>> IP address assigned to the network connection seems wrong.
>>
>> For some reason it has set it at 169.254.231.70 submask 255.255.0.0
>>
>> The one that works is as expected 192,168.0.5 and 255.255.255.0
>>
>> MK
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 21:32:44 +1200, "Tim" <Tim@NoSpam.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Possibly not, but then the NIC on your mobo could have the wrong static IP
>>>address or subnet assigned to it and another NIC added in may be picking
>>>up
>>>a valid DHCP assigned address. That would explain it.
>>>
>>>You aren't giving us any details to go on.
>>>
>>>How about the firewall log, details of your ip addresses, subnet masks,
>>>f/w
>>>config etc.
>>>
>>>I have not heard of any NIC issues on these mobos. Are you using the
>>>correct
>>>driver?
>>>
>>>- Tim
>>>
>>>
>>><kenward@ukgateway.net> wrote in message
>>>news:jn9uh0ddp7ma70rujci6gel1ev4ugt87sc@4ax.com...
>>>>
>>>> I have absolutely no problems with a different LAN link in the same
>>>> machine.
>>>>
>>>> I change nothing between the two. I can just pull the plug from one
>>>> and plug in the other. One works, the other doesn't.
>>>>
>>>> Would this be possible if there were some sort of firewall issue?
>>>>
>>>> MK
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 16:06:01 +1200, "Tim" <Tim@NoSpam.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>What exactly happens?
>>>>>Can you ping other computers on the same network?
>>>>>- if not then you likely have an IP Addressing problem.
>>>>>- if the other computers are running SP2 then they may be too tightly
>>>>>firewalled.
>>>>>Can you see other computers when you search for them?
>>>>>(My computer, Search, Computers...)
>>>>>Can you browse shared folders on other computers?
>>>>>(Try mapping a network drive to a shared folder on another computer).
>>>>>
>>>>>There are many possible problems and causes and without further
>>>>>information
>>>>>it is a little difficult to make headway.
>>>>>
>>>>>Don't forget that SP2 has a firewall included. This firewall blocks
>>>>>unsolicited incoming traffic on each machine. Have you looked at the
>>>>>firewall config, tried turning off the firewall (while the internet is
>>>>>disconnected)? Does it work then? If so you need to configure your *new*
>>>>>firewall to allow the services you want to provide. Go into Control
>>>>>Panel,
>>>>>Windows Firewall, Exceptions, and to start off with tick File and
>>>>>Printer
>>>>>sharing.
>>>>>
>>>>>- You can see I am running under the assumption that it is nothing to do
>>>>>with your motherboard...
>>>>>
>>>>>HTH
>>>>>- Tim
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>><kenward@ukgateway.net> wrote in message
>>>>>news:mt4sh0d96tdk46klf769chbu4rsdo2rtt1@4ax.com...
>>>>>> It may be a coincidence, but since applying Micros**t's SP2 to XP
>>>>>> Home, the on-board LAN won't work in my A7V8X.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Network settings do not seem to be an issue as I put in a real cheapo
>>>>>> PCI LAN card I had lying around and that works just fine.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Everything connects to a Netgear DG834 ADSL modem/router.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Two other PCs on the same network, both with on-board LAN, work just
>>>>>> fine.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyone with this board who has upgraded successfully?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>>>> Michael Kenward Words for
>>>>>> sale
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>> Michael Kenward Words for sale
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________________________________
>> Michael Kenward Words for sale
>

_______________________________________________________________________
Michael Kenward Words for sale