Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

Recently bought a new computer, the spec is as follows:
Intel 3.2Ghz Pentium 4 540 LGA 775
1024MB PC3200 400MHz DDR RAM
GeForce 6200 TurboCache (supports 256MB)
Video BIOS: 5.44.02.14.03
IRQ: 16
Bus: PCI Express x16
Memory: 256MB
Forceware Version: 77.77
TV Encoder Type: NVidia Integrated
SiS BIOS
Microsoft Windows XP/Professional SP2 - fully updated
Trend Micro AntiVirus

Monitor: Hyundai ImageQuest G210
Desktop Resolution: 1600x1200x32 - 85Hz

(ok won't bother listing HDD, DVD burner etc, cos that's not what this
message is about).

As a machine, i'm very happy with it, seems very spritly in its
operation - and though I don't play many PC games (I tend to use my PS2
for any games that I want to play), I never the less decided to try a
game or two..

So I installed MotoGP2 on it, and was shocked at just how jerky the
graphics were - exited the game, played with the settings somewhat, and
short of turning off pretty much most of the 'fancy' graphics which make
the game worth playing, I just couldn't get the card to perform.

Having just been playing the same game on my Laptop which runs a Radeon
card ... and with such a 'glitzy' name as 'turbocache' etc, I thought
the card should perform?

Anyhow, I grabbed a copy of 3DMark05, ran the tests and sustained FPS
between 1 and 5 ... Pathetic!!

Since then i've upgraded the drivers to the latest versions I could
locate 77.77, and no real difference.

So my questions to the hardware buffs amoungst us are:

1. Is there something wrong with my card?
2. Is there something wrong with my computer?
3. What FPS should I be expecting out of this card?
4. Are there any 'Ideal' BIOS settings which may improve the speed?
5. Are there any 'more optimum' drivers for this card?
6. Are there any more details I can give you re: my configuration hw/sw
in order to help you diagnose the problems?
7. If I really am already getting the best out of this card that I can,
given the setup about and a budget max of £150, what graphics card would
you replace the 6200 with (and what speeds should I be expecting out of
that)

Any advice is welcome.

Thanks


Brian.

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

> So my questions to the hardware buffs amoungst us are:
>
> 1. Is there something wrong with my card?
> 2. Is there something wrong with my computer?
> 3. What FPS should I be expecting out of this card?
> 4. Are there any 'Ideal' BIOS settings which may improve the speed?
> 5. Are there any 'more optimum' drivers for this card?
> 6. Are there any more details I can give you re: my configuration hw/sw in
> order to help you diagnose the problems?
> 7. If I really am already getting the best out of this card that I can,
> given the setup about and a budget max of £150, what graphics card would
> you replace the 6200 with (and what speeds should I be expecting out of
> that)
>
> Any advice is welcome.

http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20050208/

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

There's nothing wrong with your computer. That particular card is the one of
the worst performing cards in the Geforce 6xxx range. Turbocache and I think
ATI's implementation is called hypermemory or something really means its
pratically totally useless for playing modern games. It's only a marginal
step up from integrated motherboard graphics.

Any graphics card that will share memory with your system memory will always
perform slow.

If you want to play modern games the least you should consider is a Geforce
6600. I have the Geforce 6600GT and couldn't be more impressed with the
card!

Dan

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

Augustus wrote:
> http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20050208/

Thanks for that Augustus, a very interesting read. So i've now
concluded, that the 6200TC is fairly useless for playing games on
(unless it's for firing up a platform game under MAME:-))

That still leaves the following question pretty much unanswered...

>> 7. If I really am already getting the best out of this card that I
>> can, given the setup above and a budget max of £150, what graphics
>> card would you replace the 6200 with (and what speeds should I be
>> expecting out of that)

Thanks

Brian

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

150 pounds is around $200? Geforce 6600GT or 6800 vanilla(non-GT,ultra).

"Brian Dukes" <bdukes@yellowthingy.co.uk> wrote in message
newsdtkla$s63$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
> Augustus wrote:
> > http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20050208/
>
> Thanks for that Augustus, a very interesting read. So i've now
> concluded, that the 6200TC is fairly useless for playing games on
> (unless it's for firing up a platform game under MAME:-))
>
> That still leaves the following question pretty much unanswered...
>
> >> 7. If I really am already getting the best out of this card that I
> >> can, given the setup above and a budget max of £150, what graphics
> >> card would you replace the 6200 with (and what speeds should I be
> >> expecting out of that)
>
> Thanks
>
> Brian
>

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

> That still leaves the following question pretty much unanswered...
>
> >> 7. If I really am already getting the best out of this card that I
> >> can, given the setup above and a budget max of £150, what graphics
> >> card would you replace the 6200 with (and what speeds should I be
> >> expecting out of that)
>
> Thanks
>
> Brian

I'm in western Canada (Alberta) and have no idea what the going rates for
hardware in GB. . Don't know the online merchants and retailers over there
either. What you should be looking at is a 6600GT 128Mb card minimum. Your
monitor is 1600x1200 native, so you really should be looking at 6800GT or
Ultra level cards to game with. But these are big bucks. 6600GT is hopefully
in the 150 quid range.

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

>
> I'm in western Canada (Alberta) and have no idea what the going rates for
> hardware in GB. . Don't know the online merchants and retailers over there
> either. What you should be looking at is a 6600GT 128Mb card minimum. Your
> monitor is 1600x1200 native, so you really should be looking at 6800GT or
> Ultra level cards to game with. But these are big bucks. 6600GT is hopefully
> in the 150 quid range.

Ok now i'm even more confused!! ;-) (easily done I know)

What's the difference between:

http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech [...] ?MSI-66GTE

and

http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech [...] ?NOV-66GTE


(apart from the cost) ... why would I want to pay the extra and get the
MSI-66GTE product?

Or.. should I throw a few extra bucks at it and opt for something like:
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech [...] ASU-108711





BTW, i'm in no way affiliated to Novatech .. they just so happen to be
very competatively priced in the UK and extremely close to my home.

Brian.

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

"Brian Dukes" <bdukes@yellowthingy.co.uk> wrote in message
newsdu4lj$53e$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
> http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech [...] ?MSI-66GTE
> and http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech [...] ?NOV-66GTE
> (apart from the cost) ... why would I want to pay the extra and get the
> MSI-66GTE product?

Well, a store-branded card tends to be cheaper. There's no real difference.
And if the photo's correct, the Novatech-branded card is manufacturered by
LeadTek, making it very desirable.

> Or.. should I throw a few extra bucks at it and opt for something like:
> http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech [...] ASU-108711

More like a hundred bucks. Neither is a better value over the other.

--
"War is the continuation of politics by other means.
It can therefore be said that politics is war without
bloodshed while war is politics with bloodshed."

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

First of One wrote:
> "Brian Dukes" <bdukes@yellowthingy.co.uk> wrote in message
> newsdu4lj$53e$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
>
>>http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.html?MSI-66GTE
>>and http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech [...] ?NOV-66GTE
>>(apart from the cost) ... why would I want to pay the extra and get the
>>MSI-66GTE product?
>
>
> Well, a store-branded card tends to be cheaper. There's no real difference.
> And if the photo's correct, the Novatech-branded card is manufacturered by
> LeadTek, making it very desirable.
>
>
>>Or.. should I throw a few extra bucks at it and opt for something like:
>>http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.html?ASU-108711
>
>
> More like a hundred bucks. Neither is a better value over the other.
>

Ok i'm going to be spending some money tomorrow upgrading my Video card
and moving on from the current GeForce 6200TC.

Question is would I be better off spending a little more money and
getting this:
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech [...] ASU-108711

or should I save my cash and just opt for this:
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech [...] ?NOV-66GTE


Is the 6800 card faster? superior? more features?

I guess what i'm asking is - given a total maximum of £200, and given my
supplier of choice http://www.novatech.co.uk, and given the spec of my
PC that I already quoted (PCI-Ex) ... which card would you spend your
money on?


The DVI port on the back of these cards, am I right in thinking with an
appropriate adapter, I can connect another VGA monitor (like my Sony
Trinitron E400 19" ) ?? If so what cable am I looking for?

Thanks for your advice thus far.

Brian.

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

"Brian Dukes" <bdukes@yellowthingy.co.uk> wrote in message
newse5r77$rvj$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
> Question is would I be better off spending a little more money and getting
> this:
> http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech [...] ASU-108711
> > or should I save my cash and just opt for this:
> http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech [...] ?NOV-66GTE

The 6800 card is faster. Its performance advantage over the 6600GT is about
proportional to its price premium over the 6600GT. Given a maximum of £200,
I'd go for the 6800.

> I guess what i'm asking is - given a total maximum of £200, and given my
> supplier of choice http://www.novatech.co.uk, and given the spec of my PC
> that I already quoted (PCI-Ex) ... which card would you spend your money
> on?

Actually I think you should get the Novatech 6800, at only £119. :-)
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech [...] ?NOV-6800E

However, first I recommend you calling Novatech and ask if there's anything
"special" about the store-branded cards. They could be refurbished, come
with a short warranty, or lack all the cables/adapters (like the DVI-VGA
adapter).

> The DVI port on the back of these cards, am I right in thinking with an
> appropriate adapter, I can connect another VGA monitor (like my Sony
> Trinitron E400 19" ) ?? If so what cable am I looking for?

Yes, you are right. The DVI->VGA adapter should be included in the box.

--
"War is the continuation of politics by other means.
It can therefore be said that politics is war without
bloodshed while war is politics with bloodshed."

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

First of One wrote:

> The 6800 card is faster. Its performance advantage over the 6600GT is about
> proportional to its price premium over the 6600GT. Given a maximum of £200,
> I'd go for the 6800.

Well my impatience got the better of me ;-) I trolled down to Novatech
yesterday morning and purchased a MSI NX6600GT for £96+VAT (so following
back to your earlier post - the store brand one was actually an MSI).

I'm guessing that the ones that they sell as Novatech branded, are
perhaps some of the cheaper stock that they get in at the time. There
is indeed no Novatech branding on any of the packaging, card or software
- its all MSI.



>
> Actually I think you should get the Novatech 6800, at only £119. :-)
> http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech [...] ?NOV-6800E
>

One day perhaps i'll learn to be a little more patient! ;-) Had your
post of arrived a few hours earlier, I may well have looked more
thoroughly for a comparison between the 6600GT and the 6800.

> However, first I recommend you calling Novatech and ask if there's anything
> "special" about the store-branded cards. They could be refurbished, come
> with a short warranty, or lack all the cables/adapters (like the DVI-VGA
> adapter).

As I say I couldn't see anything special about the 'Novatech' card I
bought; all cables, manuals, packaging etc totally intact. Even came
with DVI-VGA adapter.

>
> Yes, you are right. The DVI->VGA adapter should be included in the box.

So I am right in thinking with the DVI->VGA adapter plugged in, I can
have two monitors running off this one card simultaneously?


Whilst I may not necessarily have opted for the 'optimum' card given my
spend - I decided to go for the 6600GT for several reasons:

1. It was cheaper than the 6800 that I was also looking at (ok only
marginally cheaper than the one you found)
2. The literature on Novatech's site and a few other places, mentioned
that it was a good gaming card - so clearly a STEP UP from the 6200TC.
3. Given the ever increasing graphic card product range, in 6months or a
years time, the cards that are now blisteringly fast at £250-£350 will
be around £150 ... and so if it proves that I'm being held back by
graphical performance in any of the games I may play, I can always upgrade.
4. I was impatient!! ;-)

That said the 6600GT is now in place - and well, I am impressed! ;-)
Whilst some of the 3DMark05 benchmarks were running framerates quite low
at around 8FPS .. most tests averaged around 35FPS, and some highs of
about 65FPS were seen. Running 3DMark03, gave consistently higher
framerates.

The real proof was when I came to run MotoGP2 - being a brave sort of a
guy, I instantly opted for full graphical detail ... and WOW... I was
bowled over with the speed, clarity and detail of the graphics - very
impressed.

I noticed also the MSI display properties have a setting for Dynamically
OverClocking.

The utility set also included a utility to inspect the VGA Bios, Drivers
and Utility program versions, and check for new/updated components on
the MSI site -- And yep it all seems to work -- HOWEVER, one part of
its inspection (either checking the VGA Bios, the driver versions or the
Utility software) causes something in the computer to BUZZ -- i've not
yet investigated this too much, resetting the computer stops the
buzzing, and it only happens if I select the live update -- I will try
to determine which of the 3 processes causes it.

So the current MSI drivers seem to be v77.72 - is this the latest NVidia
driver? Also does anyone use the Omega Drivers? I used to use them on
my laptop which ran an ATI Radeon card; and I note that there are
versions available for NVidia cards.


Brian

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

"Brian Dukes" <bdukes@yellowthingy.co.uk> wrote in message
newse9ggo$9ie$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
> One day perhaps i'll learn to be a little more patient! ;-) Had your post
> of arrived a few hours earlier, I may well have looked more thoroughly for
> a comparison between the 6600GT and the 6800.

UseNet historically hasn't been a "just-in-time" medium. In the old days,
before broadband and premium news servers, a post I made may show up on your
server after a week...

> As I say I couldn't see anything special about the 'Novatech' card I
> bought; all cables, manuals, packaging etc totally intact. Even came with
> DVI-VGA adapter.

Are the bags all sealed? The Novatech cards could have been simple customer
returns.

> So I am right in thinking with the DVI->VGA adapter plugged in, I can have
> two monitors running off this one card simultaneously?

Yes. The feature has been in nVidia cards since the Geforce4 days.

> 2. The literature on Novatech's site and a few other places, mentioned
> that it was a good gaming card - so clearly a STEP UP from the 6200TC.

Anything is a step up from the 6200TC. :-)

> That said the 6600GT is now in place - and well, I am impressed! ;-)
> Whilst some of the 3DMark05 benchmarks were running framerates quite low
> at around 8FPS .. most tests averaged around 35FPS, and some highs of
> about 65FPS were seen. Running 3DMark03, gave consistently higher
> framerates.

Don't have 3DMark installed, never really cared. In earlier times (3DMark
2001 and prior), the app was loosely based on a game engine (Max Payne),
which gave it some validity. Now the app is simply a few shader programs
with little resemblence to any real game. Good eye candy, poor benchmark.

> The real proof was when I came to run MotoGP2 - being a brave sort of a
> guy, I instantly opted for full graphical detail ... and WOW... I was
> bowled over with the speed, clarity and detail of the graphics - very
> impressed.

I hope you got your money's worth. :-)

> The utility set also included a utility to inspect the VGA Bios, Drivers
> and Utility program versions, and check for new/updated components on the
> MSI site -- And yep it all seems to work -- HOWEVER, one part of its
> inspection (either checking the VGA Bios, the driver versions or the
> Utility software) causes something in the computer to BUZZ

The last two cards I owned, the bundled driver disc is still in the sealed
packaging. I use reference drivers exclusively, and use the nVidia Coolbits
panel or ATiTool (if ATi) for overclocking.

> So the current MSI drivers seem to be v77.72 - is this the latest NVidia
> driver?

Check it out at www.nvidia.com .

> Also does anyone use the Omega Drivers? I used to use them on my laptop
> which ran an ATI Radeon card; and I note that there are versions
> available for NVidia cards.

Omega nVidia drivers are not updated as frequently; the latest is based on
66.93, over four months old. Personally I never found them worthwhile, the
supposedly improved image quality a product of cranked LOD-bias.

--
"War is the continuation of politics by other means.
It can therefore be said that politics is war without
bloodshed while war is politics with bloodshed."

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

First of One wrote:
> UseNet historically hasn't been a "just-in-time" medium. In the old
days,
> before broadband and premium news servers, a post I made may show up on your
> server after a week...

Yes I know having used usenet for some time .. though it is easy to
forget when you've got an 'always on' internet connection.

Anyhow, I thankyou for the advice you've given.



> Are the bags all sealed? The Novatech cards could have been simple customer
> returns.

Yes they were sealed.


> Anything is a step up from the 6200TC. :-)

Ain't that the truth!;-)


>
> Don't have 3DMark installed, never really cared. In earlier times (3DMark
> 2001 and prior), the app was loosely based on a game engine (Max Payne),
> which gave it some validity. Now the app is simply a few shader programs
> with little resemblence to any real game. Good eye candy, poor benchmark.

With my limited experience of 3DMark i'm beginning to think you've hit
the nail on the head here. For me traditionally the bench mark were
running the 'demo's' in quake at full-tilt ... but this was a few years
back when 3DFX cards were all the flavour... since then i've done next
to no PC gaming, and had no real call for a Graphics card that was
anything special.


>
> I hope you got your money's worth. :-)

I'm happy with it at the moment - the thing is with PC bits and PC's
themselves, as soon as you buy something, there is something bigger,
faster better and often cheaper out there. So yes, I probably could
have waited, but if you keep on waiting for something bigger, faster,
better and cheaper .. you'll always be waiting.



> Omega nVidia drivers are not updated as frequently; the latest is based on
> 66.93, over four months old. Personally I never found them worthwhile, the
> supposedly improved image quality a product of cranked LOD-bias.

I'd used them on lower end ATI cards before, and they seemed to perform
very well, often better than the stock ATI ones -- but the author
appears to keep the ATI drivers more upto date than the NVidia ones.
Reading the OmegaDriver website, the NVidia drivers have not been
tweaked in the same way as the ATI ones, and essentially just have a few
default properties tweaked.



Brian.