Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

apparently nvidia arent planning a on having an agp 7800, im sure its just
so they can clear their 6800 stock but it is a little concerning that the
expect people to upgrade their whole system just for a graphics card.


under a year ago i dont think you could even buy a sensibly priced
pci-express board and i doubt any agp amd64 rig would discrase a 7800 card

i guess the good bit is theirs so few pci-expess buyers that prices are in
free fall and the depressing effect on the remaining 6800 should shift
quickly

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

epaton wrote:

> apparently nvidia arent planning a on having an agp 7800, im sure its just
> so they can clear their 6800 stock but it is a little concerning that the
> expect people to upgrade their whole system just for a graphics card.

It's Intel that expects that. They're the ones trying to cram PCI-Express
down everybody's throat. And they're succeeding.

> under a year ago i dont think you could even buy a sensibly priced
> pci-express board and i doubt any agp amd64 rig would discrase a 7800 card
>
> i guess the good bit is theirs so few pci-expess buyers that prices are in
> free fall and the depressing effect on the remaining 6800 should shift
> quickly

"So few PCI Express buyers"? Try to find a new name-brand machine with AGP.
There may be a few out there but they're rare.

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

In article <dbmqam01aj@news4.newsguy.com>,
jclarke.usenet@snet.net.invalid says...
> epaton wrote:
>
> > apparently nvidia arent planning a on having an agp 7800, im sure its just
> > so they can clear their 6800 stock but it is a little concerning that the
> > expect people to upgrade their whole system just for a graphics card.
>
> It's Intel that expects that. They're the ones trying to cram PCI-Express
> down everybody's throat. And they're succeeding.
>
> > under a year ago i dont think you could even buy a sensibly priced
> > pci-express board and i doubt any agp amd64 rig would discrase a 7800 card
> >
> > i guess the good bit is theirs so few pci-expess buyers that prices are in
> > free fall and the depressing effect on the remaining 6800 should shift
> > quickly
>
> "So few PCI Express buyers"? Try to find a new name-brand machine with AGP.
> There may be a few out there but they're rare.
>
>

Do you have any idea as to what percentage of the new PCs being sold
actually use plug in pci-express cards instead of built in/on board
graphics? Everybody I know that's buying new PCs are getting bottom
feeder boxes for their kids.

Bill

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

Bill wrote:

> In article <dbmqam01aj@news4.newsguy.com>,
> jclarke.usenet@snet.net.invalid says...
>> epaton wrote:
>>
>> > apparently nvidia arent planning a on having an agp 7800, im sure its
>> > just so they can clear their 6800 stock but it is a little concerning
>> > that the expect people to upgrade their whole system just for a
>> > graphics card.
>>
>> It's Intel that expects that. They're the ones trying to cram
>> PCI-Express
>> down everybody's throat. And they're succeeding.
>>
>> > under a year ago i dont think you could even buy a sensibly priced
>> > pci-express board and i doubt any agp amd64 rig would discrase a 7800
>> > card
>> >
>> > i guess the good bit is theirs so few pci-expess buyers that prices are
>> > in free fall and the depressing effect on the remaining 6800 should
>> > shift quickly
>>
>> "So few PCI Express buyers"? Try to find a new name-brand machine with
>> AGP. There may be a few out there but they're rare.
>>
>>
>
> Do you have any idea as to what percentage of the new PCs being sold
> actually use plug in pci-express cards instead of built in/on board
> graphics? Everybody I know that's buying new PCs are getting bottom
> feeder boxes for their kids.

Doesn't matter. If most of the machines being sold have PCI Express then
there is no market for AGP upgrades for those machines. Or are you unaware
that in general machines with PCI Express do not have an AGP slot?

> Bill

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

"Everybody" you know? 80% of OEM boxes are sold to businesses. It doesn't
matter if they use integrated graphics. If the mobo has an PCIe slot and no
AGP slot, then there's no possibility of upgrading to an AGP video card for
those machines.

Retail sales are quite insignificant compared to OEM sales. Remember not so
long ago when X800XT cards were in tight supply? ATi openly acknowledged
most of the cards were being funneled to the likes of Dell (for its high-end
XPS machines) and Alienware.

--
"War is the continuation of politics by other means.
It can therefore be said that politics is war without
bloodshed while war is politics with bloodshed."

"Bill" <spamtrap@tinlc.lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1d489ad2a7eeca0d989786@news.supernews.com...
> Do you have any idea as to what percentage of the new PCs being sold
> actually use plug in pci-express cards instead of built in/on board
> graphics? Everybody I know that's buying new PCs are getting bottom
> feeder boxes for their kids.
>
> Bill

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

It's not as bad as you think. Replacing the mobo costs $150. The CPU and RAM
carry over. Meanwhile you are dumping $500 on a 7800. It's all a matter of
perspective, when the video card accounts for half the cost of the
machine...

--
"War is the continuation of politics by other means.
It can therefore be said that politics is war without
bloodshed while war is politics with bloodshed."


"epaton" <epaton@null.com> wrote in message
newsan.2005.07.20.00.25.55.381605@null.com...
> apparently nvidia arent planning a on having an agp 7800, im sure its just
> so they can clear their 6800 stock but it is a little concerning that the
> expect people to upgrade their whole system just for a graphics card.
>
>
> under a year ago i dont think you could even buy a sensibly priced
> pci-express board and i doubt any agp amd64 rig would discrase a 7800 card
>
> i guess the good bit is theirs so few pci-expess buyers that prices are in
> free fall and the depressing effect on the remaining 6800 should shift
> quickly

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

In article <dbn1c60983@news2.newsguy.com>,
jclarke.usenet@snet.net.invalid says...
> Bill wrote:
>
> > In article <dbmqam01aj@news4.newsguy.com>,
> > jclarke.usenet@snet.net.invalid says...
> >> epaton wrote:
> >>
> >> > apparently nvidia arent planning a on having an agp 7800, im sure its
> >> > just so they can clear their 6800 stock but it is a little concerning
> >> > that the expect people to upgrade their whole system just for a
> >> > graphics card.
> >>
> >> It's Intel that expects that. They're the ones trying to cram
> >> PCI-Express
> >> down everybody's throat. And they're succeeding.
> >>
> >> > under a year ago i dont think you could even buy a sensibly priced
> >> > pci-express board and i doubt any agp amd64 rig would discrase a 7800
> >> > card
> >> >
> >> > i guess the good bit is theirs so few pci-expess buyers that prices are
> >> > in free fall and the depressing effect on the remaining 6800 should
> >> > shift quickly
> >>
> >> "So few PCI Express buyers"? Try to find a new name-brand machine with
> >> AGP. There may be a few out there but they're rare.
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Do you have any idea as to what percentage of the new PCs being sold
> > actually use plug in pci-express cards instead of built in/on board
> > graphics? Everybody I know that's buying new PCs are getting bottom
> > feeder boxes for their kids.
>
> Doesn't matter. If most of the machines being sold have PCI Express then
> there is no market for AGP upgrades for those machines. Or are you unaware
> that in general machines with PCI Express do not have an AGP slot?
>
> > Bill
>
>

Yup, I'm aware of that. I'm also aware that some bottom feeder PCs
with built in AGP graphics chips have no AGP slot for a card. Can't
upgrade those either.

So do all the new PCs with built in graphics chips have pci-express
graphics slots in them?

Bill

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

Bill wrote:

> In article <dbn1c60983@news2.newsguy.com>,
> jclarke.usenet@snet.net.invalid says...
>> Bill wrote:
>>
>> > In article <dbmqam01aj@news4.newsguy.com>,
>> > jclarke.usenet@snet.net.invalid says...
>> >> epaton wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > apparently nvidia arent planning a on having an agp 7800, im sure
>> >> > its just so they can clear their 6800 stock but it is a little
>> >> > concerning that the expect people to upgrade their whole system just
>> >> > for a graphics card.
>> >>
>> >> It's Intel that expects that. They're the ones trying to cram
>> >> PCI-Express
>> >> down everybody's throat. And they're succeeding.
>> >>
>> >> > under a year ago i dont think you could even buy a sensibly priced
>> >> > pci-express board and i doubt any agp amd64 rig would discrase a
>> >> > 7800 card
>> >> >
>> >> > i guess the good bit is theirs so few pci-expess buyers that prices
>> >> > are in free fall and the depressing effect on the remaining 6800
>> >> > should shift quickly
>> >>
>> >> "So few PCI Express buyers"? Try to find a new name-brand machine
>> >> with AGP. There may be a few out there but they're rare.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> > Do you have any idea as to what percentage of the new PCs being sold
>> > actually use plug in pci-express cards instead of built in/on board
>> > graphics? Everybody I know that's buying new PCs are getting bottom
>> > feeder boxes for their kids.
>>
>> Doesn't matter. If most of the machines being sold have PCI Express then
>> there is no market for AGP upgrades for those machines. Or are you
>> unaware that in general machines with PCI Express do not have an AGP
>> slot?
>>
>> > Bill
>>
>>
>
> Yup, I'm aware of that. I'm also aware that some bottom feeder PCs
> with built in AGP graphics chips have no AGP slot for a card. Can't
> upgrade those either.

You are not grokking the concept. It is not that one cannot upgrade PCI
Express machines, it is that even the most sophisticated ones cannot take
an AGP board. You can have AGP in a machine or you can have PCI Express,
but you can't have both unless you're willing to settle for one or two
really oddball Taiwanese motherboards of dubious stability.

> So do all the new PCs with built in graphics chips have pci-express
> graphics slots in them?

There is no such thing as a "PCI Express graphics slot" any more than there
is a "PCI graphics slot". PCI Express is intended to be the successor to
PCI as well as AGP. As for "all the new PCs", there are "new PCs" that
don't have _any_ slots. So what?

I don't really understand what point you think you're making. If it is your
contention that the existence of machines with video built into the chipset
means that no PCI Express video boards are being sold, then consider that
that same argument applies to AGP. So by your reasoning no video boards of
any kind are being sold and I guess that ATI and nvidia both need to
declare bankruptcy.

If nvidia thought that there was any kind of major market for an AGP 7800,
do you think that they are too stupid to recognize the fact? They have
access to accurate sales figures for AGP vs PCI Express GPUs--they sell
both and one may assume that they know how many of each they have sold.

By the way, if there were "few PCI Express buyers" then the prices would not
be "in free fall". In electronics "free fall" comes from the economies of
scale that occur with high sales volume. By the reasoning that "free fall"
indicates lack of popularity one could argue that nobody uses 100TX or wifi
or gigabit or 250 gig disks or LCD monitors or myriad other components. It
costs almost the same to make a million chips as it does to make one
chip--most of the cost is in the setup. So the more chips you make the
lower the cost per chip will be.

> Bill

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

"J. Clarke" <jclarke.usenet@snet.net.invalid> wrote

> You can have AGP in a machine or you can have PCI Express,
> but you can't have both unless you're willing to settle for one or two
> really oddball Taiwanese motherboards of dubious stability.

Take a look at this little baby:

http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2471


--
Ed Light

Smiley :-/
MS Smiley :-\

Send spam to the FTC at
uce@ftc.gov
Thanks, robots.

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

In article <pan.2005.07.20.00.25.55.381605@null.com>, epaton says...
> apparently nvidia arent planning a on having an agp 7800, im sure its just
> so they can clear their 6800 stock but it is a little concerning that the
> expect people to upgrade their whole system just for a graphics card.
>
>
> under a year ago i dont think you could even buy a sensibly priced
> pci-express board and i doubt any agp amd64 rig would discrase a 7800 card
>
> i guess the good bit is theirs so few pci-expess buyers that prices are in
> free fall and the depressing effect on the remaining 6800 should shift
> quickly
>
Err dumbass, AGP is dead. Good luck finding an AGP motherboard that
supports the new CPUS.



--
Conor

-You wanted an argument? Oh I'm sorry, but this is abuse. You want room
K5, just along the corridor. Stupid git. (Monty Python)

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

Conor wrote:
> Err dumbass, AGP is dead. Good luck finding an AGP motherboard that
> supports the new CPUS.
>

But that is the problem.There aren't any new AGP boards for intel CPUs(
there are many sck939 nForce3 and now the ULI hybrids) ,but there is
still a big market of AGP based customers that will want to upgrade.
I myself have a P4 2.8@3.2 , 1GB DDR400 and a 9700Pro. I don't need to
upgrade yet but would like to in a few months and I have my eye on a
7800 vanilla that is yet to be anounced.The card is rumored to be
somewhere beetwen a 6800GT and Ultra but with some new improvements in
video-processing and other things that would make it faster than the
6800 series.
I think AGP based 7800 cards are bound to show but we'll have to wait
longer than for their PCI-E counterparts. But 7800GTX definitely won't
be released in AGP.

--
Glitches are BAD!!!
Beware...

ICQ:275699535

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

it is not nvidia it is the companies that make the boards.
if there is no market for agp it will be gone.

"epaton" <epaton@null.com> wrote in message
newsan.2005.07.20.00.25.55.381605@null.com...
> apparently nvidia arent planning a on having an agp 7800, im sure its just
> so they can clear their 6800 stock but it is a little concerning that the
> expect people to upgrade their whole system just for a graphics card.
>
>
> under a year ago i dont think you could even buy a sensibly priced
> pci-express board and i doubt any agp amd64 rig would discrase a 7800 card
>
> i guess the good bit is theirs so few pci-expess buyers that prices are in
> free fall and the depressing effect on the remaining 6800 should shift
> quickly

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

there is a market for agp. as a matter of fact you can still find video
cards that work on the old pci slot. No card manufacturer is that stupid to
limit its sales.the problem is that maybe the agp will not have enough
bandwith to handle the new top of the line video cards that sell for $500.
we will probably see new video card that sell for under $300 with agp.



"BigJim" <woody10277@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Z56dnfAWfssrSULfRVn-iA@comcast.com...
> it is not nvidia it is the companies that make the boards.
> if there is no market for agp it will be gone.
>
> "epaton" <epaton@null.com> wrote in message
> newsan.2005.07.20.00.25.55.381605@null.com...
>> apparently nvidia arent planning a on having an agp 7800, im sure its
>> just
>> so they can clear their 6800 stock but it is a little concerning that the
>> expect people to upgrade their whole system just for a graphics card.
>>
>>
>> under a year ago i dont think you could even buy a sensibly priced
>> pci-express board and i doubt any agp amd64 rig would discrase a 7800
>> card
>>
>> i guess the good bit is theirs so few pci-expess buyers that prices are
>> in
>> free fall and the depressing effect on the remaining 6800 should shift
>> quickly
>
>

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

In article <dbndlv01c8p@news3.newsguy.com>,
jclarke.usenet@snet.net.invalid says...
> Bill wrote:
>
> > In article <dbn1c60983@news2.newsguy.com>,
> > jclarke.usenet@snet.net.invalid says...
> >> Bill wrote:
> >>
> >> > In article <dbmqam01aj@news4.newsguy.com>,
> >> > jclarke.usenet@snet.net.invalid says...
> >> >> epaton wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > apparently nvidia arent planning a on having an agp 7800, im sure
> >> >> > its just so they can clear their 6800 stock but it is a little
> >> >> > concerning that the expect people to upgrade their whole system just
> >> >> > for a graphics card.
> >> >>
> >> >> It's Intel that expects that. They're the ones trying to cram
> >> >> PCI-Express
> >> >> down everybody's throat. And they're succeeding.
> >> >>
> >> >> > under a year ago i dont think you could even buy a sensibly priced
> >> >> > pci-express board and i doubt any agp amd64 rig would discrase a
> >> >> > 7800 card
> >> >> >
> >> >> > i guess the good bit is theirs so few pci-expess buyers that prices
> >> >> > are in free fall and the depressing effect on the remaining 6800
> >> >> > should shift quickly
> >> >>
> >> >> "So few PCI Express buyers"? Try to find a new name-brand machine
> >> >> with AGP. There may be a few out there but they're rare.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> > Do you have any idea as to what percentage of the new PCs being sold
> >> > actually use plug in pci-express cards instead of built in/on board
> >> > graphics? Everybody I know that's buying new PCs are getting bottom
> >> > feeder boxes for their kids.
> >>
> >> Doesn't matter. If most of the machines being sold have PCI Express then
> >> there is no market for AGP upgrades for those machines. Or are you
> >> unaware that in general machines with PCI Express do not have an AGP
> >> slot?
> >>
> >> > Bill
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Yup, I'm aware of that. I'm also aware that some bottom feeder PCs
> > with built in AGP graphics chips have no AGP slot for a card. Can't
> > upgrade those either.
>
> You are not grokking the concept.

I grok the concept. You haven't answered my question. I repeat. Do you
have any idea as to what percentage of the new PCs being sold actually
use plug in pci-express cards instead of built in/on board graphics?

> It is not that one cannot upgrade PCI
> Express machines, it is that even the most sophisticated ones cannot take
> an AGP board. You can have AGP in a machine or you can have PCI Express,
> but you can't have both unless you're willing to settle for one or two
> really oddball Taiwanese motherboards of dubious stability.
>
> > So do all the new PCs with built in graphics chips have pci-express
> > graphics slots in them?
>
> There is no such thing as a "PCI Express graphics slot" any more than there
> is a "PCI graphics slot".

So you can stick a pci-express graphics card into any pci-express slot