Archived from groups: comp.security.firewalls (More info?)

Just wondering what was the best Free or Purchased Firewall?? ie.
ZoneAlarm, Norton, Sygate...

Archived from groups: comp.security.firewalls (More info?)

In article <1125582451.330193.249720@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
hplayer03 <rosnermd@gmail.com> wrote:
:Just wondering what was the best Free or Purchased Firewall?? ie.
:ZoneAlarm, Norton, Sygate...

The archives of the discussion here of 2 weeks ago can be found at
http://groups.google.ca/group/comp [...] 01857e1e89

In particular, quoting from my answer of the time:

We'll need to know your set of metrics (measurement functions that assign
specific numeric values), and the weighting function used to
project from the measurement list into a final score. The decision
of which is the "best" is dependant on what you mean by "best".

--
"No one has the right to destroy another person's belief by
demanding empirical evidence." -- Ann Landers

Archived from groups: comp.security.firewalls (More info?)

"hplayer03" <rosnermd@gmail.com> wrote in news:1125582451.330193.249720
@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

> Just wondering what was the best Free or Purchased Firewall?? ie.
> ZoneAlarm, Norton, Sygate...
>
>

Hey, download the trial ware and find the one that fits your needs. No one
can tell you what's the best and you must figure it out on your own based
on your needs.

Duane

Archived from groups: comp.security.firewalls (More info?)

hplayer03 <rosnermd@gmail.com> wrote:
> Just wondering what was the best Free or Purchased Firewall?? ie.
> ZoneAlarm, Norton, Sygate...

Those are not firewalls. They're "Personal Firewalls", products
one doesn't need.

Yours,
VB.
--
"Es kann nicht sein, dass die Frustrierten in Rom bestimmen, was in
deutschen Schlafzimmern passiert".
Harald Schmidt zum "Weltjugendtag"

Archived from groups: comp.security.firewalls (More info?)

On 2005-09-01, Volker Birk <bumens@dingens.org> blabbed:
> hplayer03 <rosnermd@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Just wondering what was the best Free or Purchased Firewall?? ie.
>> ZoneAlarm, Norton, Sygate...
> Those are not firewalls. They're "Personal Firewalls", products
> one doesn't need.

To expand on that (and I agree for the most part) you may wish to look
into a Cisco PIX, SonicWALL, etc... an alternate solution is a dedicated
machine running linux/*nix of some variety setup strictly as a
firewall... although I'm personally a fan of dedicated specialized
equipment when it comes to networking equipment.

--
Shadus

Archived from groups: comp.security.firewalls (More info?)

In the Usenet newsgroup comp.security.firewalls, in article
<1125582451.330193.249720@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, hplayer03 wrote:

>Just wondering what was the best Free or Purchased Firewall?? ie.
>ZoneAlarm, Norton, Sygate...

Just wondering what was the best motor vehicle?? i.e. BMW M3, Toyota
Prism, Hummer H2, White Freightliner...

It depends whether you want to go racing, or haul a hundred refrigerators
across the state.

Now, if you'd care to define your problem a little more specifically, you
might get a more specific answer. Then again, if you are asking about a
"personal" firewall for some version of windoze (note that you didn't
even bother mentioning your operating platform or O/S), all you might
get is the usual flame war equivalent to which beer is better.

Old guy

Archived from groups: comp.security.firewalls (More info?)

On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 11:09:45 -0500, Shadus <shadus@shadus.org> wrote:

>On 2005-09-01, Volker Birk <bumens@dingens.org> blabbed:
>> hplayer03 <rosnermd@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Just wondering what was the best Free or Purchased Firewall?? ie.
>>> ZoneAlarm, Norton, Sygate...
>> Those are not firewalls. They're "Personal Firewalls", products
>> one doesn't need.
>
>To expand on that (and I agree for the most part) you may wish to look
>into a Cisco PIX, SonicWALL, etc... an alternate solution is a dedicated
>machine running linux/*nix of some variety setup strictly as a
>firewall... although I'm personally a fan of dedicated specialized
>equipment when it comes to networking equipment.

I understand the arguments against software firewalls and pro hardware
firewalls, but these units currently range in price from US$1000 to
more than $15000. There are a few between $600 - $999.

Not exactly attractive to the home broadband user.

If the arguments for hardware firewalls are so compelling, it seems
Cisco, Sonicwall, and others would be developing low cost hardware
firewall solutions for non-commercial home users. What they might lose
in high margins on expensive units, they could regain in volume of
sales of low cost home user-oriented boxes.

Until there are sub $100 dollar hardware firewalls, people are going
to go for the perceived protection of software firewalls, whether real
or not.

Archived from groups: comp.security.firewalls (More info?)

In article <3useh1p0p3scd9v90s0vr301f6fpvnkpol@4ax.com>,
J. E. Durbin <slothrop@example.com.invalid> wrote:
:If the arguments for hardware firewalls are so compelling, it seems
:Cisco, Sonicwall, and others would be developing low cost hardware
:firewall solutions for non-commercial home users. What they might lose
:in high margins on expensive units, they could regain in volume of
:sales of low cost home user-oriented boxes.

Cisco doesn't do -any- "low cost home user-oriented" devices,
not under their own brand name. Cisco's support organization
isn't equipped to handle masses of questions from people who
expect practically-free support.

Cisco does make some inexpensive devices under it's Linksys
brandname, that it markets as "firewalls". Linksys support is
third-world call-center, last I heard... be sure to have your
Windows re-install discs ready so you can follow the script.
--
Oh, to be a Blobel!

Archived from groups: comp.security.firewalls (More info?)

J. E. Durbin <slothrop@example.com.invalid> wrote in
news:3useh1p0p3scd9v90s0vr301f6fpvnkpol@4ax.com:

> On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 11:09:45 -0500, Shadus <shadus@shadus.org> wrote:
>
>>On 2005-09-01, Volker Birk <bumens@dingens.org> blabbed:
>>> hplayer03 <rosnermd@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Just wondering what was the best Free or Purchased Firewall?? ie.
>>>> ZoneAlarm, Norton, Sygate...
>>> Those are not firewalls. They're "Personal Firewalls", products
>>> one doesn't need.
>>
>>To expand on that (and I agree for the most part) you may wish to look
>>into a Cisco PIX, SonicWALL, etc... an alternate solution is a
dedicated
>>machine running linux/*nix of some variety setup strictly as a
>>firewall... although I'm personally a fan of dedicated specialized
>>equipment when it comes to networking equipment.
>
> I understand the arguments against software firewalls and pro hardware
> firewalls, but these units currently range in price from US$1000 to
> more than $15000. There are a few between $600 - $999.
>
> Not exactly attractive to the home broadband user.
>
> If the arguments for hardware firewalls are so compelling, it seems
> Cisco, Sonicwall, and others would be developing low cost hardware
> firewall solutions for non-commercial home users. What they might lose
> in high margins on expensive units, they could regain in volume of
> sales of low cost home user-oriented boxes.
>
> Until there are sub $100 dollar hardware firewalls, people are going
> to go for the perceived protection of software firewalls, whether real
> or not.
>
>

What? You can go get a refurbished/used low-end one for $100 or less that
will have a full 90 day warrantee and support on them.

Duane

Archived from groups: comp.security.firewalls (More info?)

In article <df7tbc$qrl$1@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca>,
roberson@ibd.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca says...
> In article <3useh1p0p3scd9v90s0vr301f6fpvnkpol@4ax.com>,
> J. E. Durbin <slothrop@example.com.invalid> wrote:
> :If the arguments for hardware firewalls are so compelling, it seems
> :Cisco, Sonicwall, and others would be developing low cost hardware
> :firewall solutions for non-commercial home users. What they might lose
> :in high margins on expensive units, they could regain in volume of
> :sales of low cost home user-oriented boxes.
>
> Cisco doesn't do -any- "low cost home user-oriented" devices,
> not under their own brand name. Cisco's support organization
> isn't equipped to handle masses of questions from people who
> expect practically-free support.
>
> Cisco does make some inexpensive devices under it's Linksys
> brandname, that it markets as "firewalls". Linksys support is
> third-world call-center, last I heard... be sure to have your
> Windows re-install discs ready so you can follow the script.
>
I just spoke with Linksys tech support today. The tech I spoke
with was located in the Phillipines. He did walk me through
setting up my router (after changing cable modems) and was helpful
and polite.

I find that the 24/7 aspect of Linksys tech support is worth a lot.

Louise

Archived from groups: comp.security.firewalls (More info?)

In article <Xns96C4AF45EED06notmenotmecom@204.127.199.17>,
notme@notme.com says...
> J. E. Durbin <slothrop@example.com.invalid> wrote in
> news:3useh1p0p3scd9v90s0vr301f6fpvnkpol@4ax.com:
>
> > On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 11:09:45 -0500, Shadus <shadus@shadus.org> wrote:
> >
> >>On 2005-09-01, Volker Birk <bumens@dingens.org> blabbed:
> >>> hplayer03 <rosnermd@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> Just wondering what was the best Free or Purchased Firewall?? ie.
> >>>> ZoneAlarm, Norton, Sygate...
> >>> Those are not firewalls. They're "Personal Firewalls", products
> >>> one doesn't need.
> >>
> >>To expand on that (and I agree for the most part) you may wish to look
> >>into a Cisco PIX, SonicWALL, etc... an alternate solution is a
> dedicated
> >>machine running linux/*nix of some variety setup strictly as a
> >>firewall... although I'm personally a fan of dedicated specialized
> >>equipment when it comes to networking equipment.
> >
> > I understand the arguments against software firewalls and pro hardware
> > firewalls, but these units currently range in price from US$1000 to
> > more than $15000. There are a few between $600 - $999.
> >
> > Not exactly attractive to the home broadband user.
> >
> > If the arguments for hardware firewalls are so compelling, it seems
> > Cisco, Sonicwall, and others would be developing low cost hardware
> > firewall solutions for non-commercial home users. What they might lose
> > in high margins on expensive units, they could regain in volume of
> > sales of low cost home user-oriented boxes.
> >
> > Until there are sub $100 dollar hardware firewalls, people are going
> > to go for the perceived protection of software firewalls, whether real
> > or not.
> >
> >
>
> What? You can go get a refurbished/used low-end one for $100 or less that
> will have a full 90 day warrantee and support on them.
>
> Duane
>
>
>
Where? If you don't know a lot about firewalls (I'm using Sygate
at the moment), would a hardware firewall be difficult to set up?

TIA

Louise

Archived from groups: comp.security.firewalls (More info?)

louise <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in
news:MPG.1d81680e35acb6f69896d2@news-server.nyc.rr.com:

> In article <Xns96C4AF45EED06notmenotmecom@204.127.199.17>,
> notme@notme.com says...
>> J. E. Durbin <slothrop@example.com.invalid> wrote in
>> news:3useh1p0p3scd9v90s0vr301f6fpvnkpol@4ax.com:
>>
>> > On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 11:09:45 -0500, Shadus <shadus@shadus.org>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >>On 2005-09-01, Volker Birk <bumens@dingens.org> blabbed:
>> >>> hplayer03 <rosnermd@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>> Just wondering what was the best Free or Purchased Firewall??
>> >>>> ie. ZoneAlarm, Norton, Sygate...
>> >>> Those are not firewalls. They're "Personal Firewalls", products
>> >>> one doesn't need.
>> >>
>> >>To expand on that (and I agree for the most part) you may wish to
>> >>look into a Cisco PIX, SonicWALL, etc... an alternate solution is a
>> dedicated
>> >>machine running linux/*nix of some variety setup strictly as a
>> >>firewall... although I'm personally a fan of dedicated specialized
>> >>equipment when it comes to networking equipment.
>> >
>> > I understand the arguments against software firewalls and pro
>> > hardware firewalls, but these units currently range in price from
>> > US$1000 to more than $15000. There are a few between $600 - $999.
>> >
>> > Not exactly attractive to the home broadband user.
>> >
>> > If the arguments for hardware firewalls are so compelling, it seems
>> > Cisco, Sonicwall, and others would be developing low cost hardware
>> > firewall solutions for non-commercial home users. What they might
>> > lose in high margins on expensive units, they could regain in
>> > volume of sales of low cost home user-oriented boxes.
>> >
>> > Until there are sub $100 dollar hardware firewalls, people are
>> > going to go for the perceived protection of software firewalls,
>> > whether real or not.
>> >
>> >
>>
>> What? You can go get a refurbished/used low-end one for $100 or less
>> that will have a full 90 day warrantee and support on them.
>>
>> Duane
>>
>>
>>
> Where? If you don't know a lot about firewalls (I'm using Sygate
> at the moment), would a hardware firewall be difficult to set up?
>
> TIA
>
> Louise

There have been some posts providing links for Watchguard units made to
me. Unfortunately, I didn't keep them. I sure if you got on the phone
with Watchguard sales they could point you in the right direction. And I
would suspect the same with other brands such as Sonicwall and others.

The units are plug and play like the Linksys you talked about in your
other post and need little configuration on your part. You could look at
the WG Firebox III SOHO 6 or 6tc line. If you're working with a Linksys
router they are not much different than that just more powerful in the
rules that can be set. Most of the rules for service like HTTP HTTPS,
SMTP, etc etc have already been configured for you. You just have to
enable them when needed, along with being able to make your own custom
rules too when needed. It's a piece of cake.

Duane

Archived from groups: comp.security.firewalls (More info?)

In article <Xns96C4D04ADD3Dnotmenotmecom@204.127.199.17>,
notme@notme.com says...
> louise <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in
> news:MPG.1d81680e35acb6f69896d2@news-server.nyc.rr.com:
>
> > In article <Xns96C4AF45EED06notmenotmecom@204.127.199.17>,
> > notme@notme.com says...
> >> J. E. Durbin <slothrop@example.com.invalid> wrote in
> >> news:3useh1p0p3scd9v90s0vr301f6fpvnkpol@4ax.com:
> >>
> >> > On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 11:09:45 -0500, Shadus <shadus@shadus.org>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>On 2005-09-01, Volker Birk <bumens@dingens.org> blabbed:
> >> >>> hplayer03 <rosnermd@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>>> Just wondering what was the best Free or Purchased Firewall??
> >> >>>> ie. ZoneAlarm, Norton, Sygate...
> >> >>> Those are not firewalls. They're "Personal Firewalls", products
> >> >>> one doesn't need.
> >> >>
> >> >>To expand on that (and I agree for the most part) you may wish to
> >> >>look into a Cisco PIX, SonicWALL, etc... an alternate solution is a
> >> dedicated
> >> >>machine running linux/*nix of some variety setup strictly as a
> >> >>firewall... although I'm personally a fan of dedicated specialized
> >> >>equipment when it comes to networking equipment.
> >> >
> >> > I understand the arguments against software firewalls and pro
> >> > hardware firewalls, but these units currently range in price from
> >> > US$1000 to more than $15000. There are a few between $600 - $999.
> >> >
> >> > Not exactly attractive to the home broadband user.
> >> >
> >> > If the arguments for hardware firewalls are so compelling, it seems
> >> > Cisco, Sonicwall, and others would be developing low cost hardware
> >> > firewall solutions for non-commercial home users. What they might
> >> > lose in high margins on expensive units, they could regain in
> >> > volume of sales of low cost home user-oriented boxes.
> >> >
> >> > Until there are sub $100 dollar hardware firewalls, people are
> >> > going to go for the perceived protection of software firewalls,
> >> > whether real or not.
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >> What? You can go get a refurbished/used low-end one for $100 or less
> >> that will have a full 90 day warrantee and support on them.
> >>
> >> Duane
> >>
> >>
> >>
thanks - I found the user manual online and I'm going to attempt to
comprehend it :-)

Louise

Archived from groups: comp.security.firewalls (More info?)

On 2005-09-01, J E Durbin <slothrop@example.com.invalid> blabbed:
> I understand the arguments against software firewalls and pro hardware
> firewalls, but these units currently range in price from US$1000 to
> more than $15000. There are a few between $600 - $999.

I paid 230$ for my cisco pix 501. I don't consider that an abhorant
ammount for a firewall for my home network. It also lets me open a vpn
to my place of work and use their network just like i'm sitting there.

> If the arguments for hardware firewalls are so compelling, it seems
> Cisco, Sonicwall, and others would be developing low cost hardware
> firewall solutions for non-commercial home users. What they might lose
> in high margins on expensive units, they could regain in volume of
> sales of low cost home user-oriented boxes.
>
> Until there are sub $100 dollar hardware firewalls, people are going
> to go for the perceived protection of software firewalls, whether real
> or not.

Anything is better than nothing, so a software firewall isn't a bad
plan. Again I mentioned a really low cost solution, build a pc for
$150 on pricewatch, install linux, and tweak it up. Shrug, takes time
and learning something about security and networking, but it's cheap.

The real problem that keeps home users from using hardware firewalls is
they require configuration and if something involves more than "plug in"
and "turn on" most home users "tune out".

--
Shadus

Archived from groups: comp.security.firewalls (More info?)

>
> The real problem that keeps home users from using hardware firewalls is
> they require configuration and if something involves more than "plug in"
> and "turn on" most home users "tune out".
>

But they will sit there and play with a PFW solution and wonder why things
are not working with the bloat ware in them. ;-)

Duane

Archived from groups: comp.security.firewalls (More info?)

J. E. Durbin <slothrop@example.com.invalid> wrote:
> Next come up with a way to convince a 79 year-old user or Joe the
> mechanic and his wife Marge the waitress that they need to spend
> another 50 bucks for a router and $100 - 300 + a $100/year
> subscription fee for a mystery box that, as far as they can tell,
> should have been part of the PC they already paid good damn money for.
> Got an answer the average, non-techie, user will understand?

Yes. Marge & Joe are completely right.

Microsoft should start to deliver their software with a secure basic
installation.

Windows XP SP2 is the very first step in this direction, and a long, long
way to go.

Say: Marge & Joe should by a Macintosh ;-)

Yours,
VB.
--
"Es kann nicht sein, dass die Frustrierten in Rom bestimmen, was in
deutschen Schlafzimmern passiert".
Harald Schmidt zum "Weltjugendtag"

Archived from groups: comp.security.firewalls (More info?)

begin quotation
from Volker Birk <bumens@dingens.org>
in message <431939b2@news.uni-ulm.de>
posted at 2005-09-03T05:50
> J. E. Durbin <slothrop@example.com.invalid> wrote:
>> Next come up with a way to convince a 79 year-old user or Joe
>> the mechanic and his wife Marge the waitress that they need to
>> spend another 50 bucks for a router and $100 - 300 + a $100/year
>> subscription fee for a mystery box that, as far as they can tell,
>> should have been part of the PC they already paid good damn money
>> for. Got an answer the average, non-techie, user will understand?

> Yes. Marge & Joe are completely right.

> Microsoft should start to deliver their software with a secure basic
> installation.

You mean the same way OpenBSD has for years?

> Windows XP SP2 is the very first step in this direction, and a long,
> long way to go.

Agreed, and Microsoft has no excuse for taking this long to finally take
security seriously.

> Say: Marge & Joe should by a Macintosh ;-)

You don't have to dump the PC to dump Windows. This is exactly why I
flame people for saying "PC" when they really mean "PC running Windows".

That said, I do trust Apple more than Microsoft, which is not really
saying much. In some ways dealing