Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

After 8 years of absolutely loathing Verizon (yes, as far back as when
it was still Bell Atlantic Mobile in my neck of the woods) for the
horrible experience and treatment I got from them back in the day, I
actually *gasped* am considering switching back.

I left Sprint about a month ago, after coverage began degrading
significantly in my area for unknown reasons. The only two events I can
coincide with the degradation is the Nextel merger, and rollout of EVDO.
But that's neither here now there. The fact reamined that despite
haveing service with them for nearly 8 years, signal levels became
unacceptable and I had to move on.

So I ported my number to Cingular. And Cingular is... well, acceptable
I guess. The RAZR is indeed a nice phone, but their website and
customer service are lacking, and while I have to place my phone in
certain spots at home to get a workable signal, it's still better than
no service at all, which is what I ultimately got with Sprint all of a
sudden. And Cingular does a good job blanketing all the other non-home
areas I frequent (work, friend's houses, etc) with coverage, so that's
certainly good).

But then, after being somewhat annoyed with the accomodations I have to
make in order for Cingular service to work (not tilting my head certain
ways, not walking into certain rooms of the house, and not crossing from
one half of the house to another while in a call or else it'll drop), I
decided to bite the bullet and give Verizon a try.

Now, with a Motorola E815 in hand, I'm utterly shocked. I'm actually
getting quite good in-house coverage with Verizon. No dropped calls,
very good signal strength, excellent call quality no matter where I end
up going. Sadly, Verizon appears to be the only major cell carrier that
covers my house well. So, I may have to *gulp* port my number over to
them and stick with it. The fact that my employer offers a 15% discount
on Verizon service is kinda sweetening my bitterness to Verizon, as well.

An interesting thing happened this evening, though. When I was getting
the phone activated and was signing up for service, I noticed the sales
rep seemed to be having an awful lot of trouble setting up my account.
I wasn't really able to see what he was doing as I could barely peek
over the edge of his computer screen (LCD), but it looks like a lot of
warning and dialog boxes were popping up and he was summarily dismissing
and overrding all of them. He spent a good 5 minutes just doing this.
I thought nothing of it considering the phone works, vcast is fine, and
all was good. UNTIL I had a question to ask customer service later in
the night. Specifically, I wanted to know if VCast and EVDO were based
on an MOU kind of arrangement, or if they were unlimited.

My question was answered by the rep I reached on 611 (no MOU, data is
unlimited with the $15 VCast pack), but as she answered, she paused, and
asked me "wait, you started service today?" To which I answered yes.
She wanted to know what plan I signed up for and I told her. Then she
said something that raised eyebrows.

"Hmm... whoever signed you up put you on a really old promotion. Let me
switch that over to the current promotion, America's Choice 2. Your
price plan or minutes won't change, I'm just bring it more up to date...
just a second..."

Then it hit me. The sales rep at the store, for whatever reason, worked
REALLY hard to get my account provisioned under the old America's Choice
plan without telling me. And I went and botched up his efforts by
asking a stupid question.

I don't know the details about the difference between AC1 and AC2, but I
have been scanning his newsgroup long enough to know that people were
griping about the switch. Does anyone know what exactly I lost, feature
or coverage wise? I know that AC2 is a "no-roam" plan, in that I can't
roam outside of Verizon's extended and home areas, as opposed to AC1
which lets you roam at $.69/minute. But did I lose any "home" coverage
area as a result?

FWIW, I have NOT actually ported my number to Verizon yet. I
specifically wanted to check coveage first before settling on my
decision, so I COULD always be "dissatisfied" and cancel service before
the 15 days, and then re-sign with the same sales rep to get AC1 back if
it's really worth it to have. I just want to know if it's worth the
hassle, or if I should leave things be.

--
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Transpose the c's and a's in my e-mail address to reply.

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

>From what I have read, it all depends on exactly where you use the
phone, if AC1 is better or worse than AC2. In most areas, AC2 allows
you to make a call without roaming. In areas without coverage under
AC2, you have no service except to make emergency calls. In some
areas, there is roaming allowed under AC1 and no service under AC2.
But in a few areas, so some say, with AC1, you are roaming at 69 cpm
and with AC2, your call is free. In my neck of the woods (DC area),
the coverage under AC2 is so solid, I wouldn't want the possibility of
switching to roaming on our family plan.

Did your previous plan include free mobile to mobile IN calling?
That's a big consideration for those of us on a family plan who have
lots of friends with Verizon cells.

Lena

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Lena wrote:
>>From what I have read, it all depends on exactly where you use the
> phone, if AC1 is better or worse than AC2. In most areas, AC2 allows
> you to make a call without roaming. In areas without coverage under
> AC2, you have no service except to make emergency calls. In some
> areas, there is roaming allowed under AC1 and no service under AC2.
> But in a few areas, so some say, with AC1, you are roaming at 69 cpm
> and with AC2, your call is free. In my neck of the woods (DC area),
> the coverage under AC2 is so solid, I wouldn't want the possibility of
> switching to roaming on our family plan.


Hi Lena,

Thanks. I'm wondering now if there's some sort of map that
comapres/overlays the two areas to see where things got better or worse.

I guess the important thing is that the service works at home, and
appears to work in the local area. The big test will be this weekend
when I travel to the Baltimore/DC area, and I get to see how well
coverage holds there and along the way.

> Did your previous plan include free mobile to mobile IN calling?
> That's a big consideration for those of us on a family plan who have
> lots of friends with Verizon cells.

from what I understand, both old and new plans had/have IN calling. At
the moment though, this doesn't really matter to me, as all my friends
and family are still on Sprint or Cingular (though those on the Sprint
side of things are having trouble lately, too).

--
E-mail fudged to thwart spammers.
Transpose the c's and a's in my e-mail address to reply.

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Isaiah Beard wrote:
>I'm wondering now if there's some sort of map that
> comapres/overlays the two areas to see where things got better or worse.

If you go to
http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/index.jsp
and select a plan (personal, individual) and enter a zip code where you
live or where you intend to travel, you can get to a map where you can
select to see the coverage under the AC1 (pre-Feb '05) or the AC2
(post-Feb '05) plans.

Verizon works well throughout the DC area, even in the Metro (subway).

Lena

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Isaiah Beard wrote:
> Lena wrote:
>>> From what I have read, it all depends on exactly where
>>> you use the
>> phone, if AC1 is better or worse than AC2. In most
>> areas, AC2 allows you to make a call without roaming.
>> In areas without coverage under AC2, you have no service
>> except to make emergency calls. In some areas, there is
>> roaming allowed under AC1 and no service under AC2. But
>> in a few areas, so some say, with AC1, you are roaming
>> at 69 cpm and with AC2, your call is free. In my neck
>> of the woods (DC area), the coverage under AC2 is so
>> solid, I wouldn't want the possibility of switching to
>> roaming on our family plan.
>
>
> Hi Lena,
>
> Thanks. I'm wondering now if there's some sort of map that
> comapres/overlays the two areas to see where things got
> better or worse.
>
> I guess the important thing is that the service works at
> home, and appears to work in the local area. The big
> test will be this weekend when I travel to the
> Baltimore/DC area, and I get to see how well coverage
> holds there and along the way.
>
>> Did your previous plan include free mobile to mobile IN
>> calling? That's a big consideration for those of us on a
>> family plan who have lots of friends with Verizon cells.
>
> from what I understand, both old and new plans had/have
> IN calling. At the moment though, this doesn't really
> matter to me, as all my friends and family are still on
> Sprint or Cingular (though those on the Sprint side of
> things are having trouble lately, too).

For VZW native and extended network AC2 should be
a superset of AC1. The AC2 "home" coverage should
be slightly larger than the AC1 "home" area. So in a
very few areas you would be roaming on AC1 and covered
on AC2. Outside of the AC2 coverage you will get "no service"
(except for 911 calls of course) under AC2 and Roaming
under AC1.

The real mystery is why did the guy (apparently intentionally)
put you under AC1? Maybe you made a big point of "I want
my phone to work *everywhere*"? and he figured you would
be going places outside of the AC2 area? Are you out in the
sticks somewhere? or close to it?

-Quick

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Isaiah,

Lena is definitely correct though they have turned off some of the repeaters
that they had in tunnels of the metro for safety reasons.

I've had Verizon up here in Northern Virginia for a few years now and it's
been fantabulous.

-gg-

> Isaiah Beard wrote:
>
>> I'm wondering now if there's some sort of map that comapres/overlays
>> the two areas to see where things got better or worse.
>>
> If you go to
> http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/index.jsp
> and select a plan (personal, individual) and enter a zip code where
> you
> live or where you intend to travel, you can get to a map where you can
> select to see the coverage under the AC1 (pre-Feb '05) or the AC2
> (post-Feb '05) plans.
> Verizon works well throughout the DC area, even in the Metro (subway).
>
> Lena
>

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

In article <1124281152.831776.303110@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
"Lena" <lenagainster@gmail.com> wrote:

> Did your previous plan include free mobile to mobile IN calling?
> That's a big consideration for those of us on a family plan who have
> lots of friends with Verizon cells.

Or even those of us who aren't on a family plan.

--
Stop Mad Cowboy Disease: Impeach the son of a Bush.

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Isaiah,
I forget where you live. El Paso? The difference between AC1
and AC II is very small and affects only a few small areas. For
example, if you are in El Paso, the only spot where coverage is
lost nearby, is in the very northern end of NM in the town of
Angle Fire where AC1 would allow a signal at .69, but AC II would
allow only calls to 911. In my case, I have many additional
free areas under AC II, and closer to El Paso, coverage is now
included within the entire state of TX, which was not available
under AC1.

Angel Fire will have service under AC II within the next year.

Bill Radio
Click for Western U.S. Wireless Reviews at:
http://www.mountainwireless.com

"Isaiah Beard" <sacredpoet@sacredpoet.com> wrote in message
news:11g6p09gbjhk86f@corp.supernews.com...
> Lena wrote:
> >>From what I have read, it all depends on exactly where you use the
> > phone, if AC1 is better or worse than AC2. In most areas, AC2 allows
> > you to make a call without roaming. In areas without coverage under
> > AC2, you have no service except to make emergency calls. In some
> > areas, there is roaming allowed under AC1 and no service under AC2.
> > But in a few areas, so some say, with AC1, you are roaming at 69 cpm
> > and with AC2, your call is free. In my neck of the woods (DC area),
> > the coverage under AC2 is so solid, I wouldn't want the possibility of
> > switching to roaming on our family plan.
>
>
> Hi Lena,
>
> Thanks. I'm wondering now if there's some sort of map that
> comapres/overlays the two areas to see where things got better or worse.
>
> I guess the important thing is that the service works at home, and
> appears to work in the local area. The big test will be this weekend
> when I travel to the Baltimore/DC area, and I get to see how well
> coverage holds there and along the way.
>
> > Did your previous plan include free mobile to mobile IN calling?
> > That's a big consideration for those of us on a family plan who have
> > lots of friends with Verizon cells.
>
> from what I understand, both old and new plans had/have IN calling. At
> the moment though, this doesn't really matter to me, as all my friends
> and family are still on Sprint or Cingular (though those on the Sprint
> side of things are having trouble lately, too).
>
> --
> E-mail fudged to thwart spammers.
> Transpose the c's and a's in my e-mail address to reply.

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Quick wrote:

>
> The real mystery is why did the guy (apparently intentionally)
> put you under AC1? Maybe you made a big point of "I want
> my phone to work *everywhere*"? and he figured you would
> be going places outside of the AC2 area?


No idea why he would do this. All I said was Cingular and Sprint were
doing a lousy job lately of covering my house, but that before I ported
my number AGAIN, I'd like to try it at home, work and in between, and
see if I could get a decent signal. I certainly hope he didn't think
I'd be okay with roaming at $.69/minute if it turned out there was no
native coverage!

> Are you out in the
> sticks somewhere? or close to it?

Nope, I live in Central New Jersey, just off a major highway. In fact,
there's a water tower within eyesight that has one major carrier on it,
and all the other cell carriers have 100 foot masts clustered NEXT to
the water tower (but not tall enough to extend past the height of the
tower... must be a city ordinance/NIMBY thing).

Unfortunately, the huge water tower stands between my house and highway,
and naturally the wireless cariers on masts would rather cover the
highway, so it became a matter of finding which carrier was on the water
tower (and thus, able to cover me). I had thought it was Sprint, but
with coverage going downhill this doesn't seem to be the case. Looks
like it was Verizon after all.

At any rate, I just completed my port into Verizon, so it would appear
I'm here to stay for a while.I just hope that since the last time I
dealt with this company's predecessor eight years ago, things will have
improved such that I dont't go through nightmare I had last time (or
least if I get screwed again, they find a more creative and less
devastating way to do it).


--
E-mail fudged to thwart spammers.
Transpose the c's and a's in my e-mail address to reply.

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Isaiah Beard wrote:
> I live in Central New Jersey,

O my gawd! Sorry about that. Your signal should be strong everywhere,
it's just that you'll be sharing it with so many people! :> ) (Being
from NJ myself, I feel I have a right to feel sorry for the folks who
still live there.)

Geez, it can't be worse than around the crowded DC area. Strong
signals, lots of users, still no problems making and receiving calls.

Lena

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

"Isaiah Beard" <sacredpoet@sacredpoet.com> wrote in message
news:11g6p09gbjhk86f@corp.supernews.com...
> Lena wrote:
> >>From what I have read, it all depends on exactly where you use the
> > phone, if AC1 is better or worse than AC2. In most areas, AC2 allows
> > you to make a call without roaming. In areas without coverage under
> > AC2, you have no service except to make emergency calls. In some
> > areas, there is roaming allowed under AC1 and no service under AC2.
> > But in a few areas, so some say, with AC1, you are roaming at 69 cpm
> > and with AC2, your call is free. In my neck of the woods (DC area),
> > the coverage under AC2 is so solid, I wouldn't want the possibility of
> > switching to roaming on our family plan.
>
>
> Hi Lena,
>
> Thanks. I'm wondering now if there's some sort of map that
> comapres/overlays the two areas to see where things got better or worse.
>
> I guess the important thing is that the service works at home, and
> appears to work in the local area. The big test will be this weekend
> when I travel to the Baltimore/DC area, and I get to see how well
> coverage holds there and along the way.
>
> > Did your previous plan include free mobile to mobile IN calling?
> > That's a big consideration for those of us on a family plan who have
> > lots of friends with Verizon cells.
>
> from what I understand, both old and new plans had/have IN calling. At
> the moment though, this doesn't really matter to me, as all my friends
> and family are still on Sprint or Cingular (though those on the Sprint
> side of things are having trouble lately, too).
>
> --
> E-mail fudged to thwart spammers.
> Transpose the c's and a's in my e-mail address to reply.

In the Baltimore Washington area, you should get a solid signal even with
ACII. The coverage maps reveal that West Virginia and the mountains would
be the area that AC II doesn't cover, my understanding is that No cellular
provider has particularly strong service in West Virginia.

I have had the AC II family plan since the beginning of the year. In that
time I have travelled repeatedly to Virginia's Eastern Shore, have been to
the Outer Banks and recently went to the Shenandoah Valley. The only time I
saw no service was in my recent trip to the Valley. We were staying in
Orkney Springs which is literally nestled in the Massanutten range. The WVA
state line is less than a mile away, straight up. Once we climbed out of
the hollow, our signal reappeared.

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Carl Keehn wrote:
> the Shenandoah Valley. The only time I
> saw no service was in my recent trip to the Valley. We were staying in
> Orkney Springs which is literally nestled in the Massanutten range. The WVA
> state line is less than a mile away, straight up. Once we climbed out of
> the hollow, our signal reappeared.

Once one leaves the Frederick area on I-70 westbound, coverage switches
to "extended area", still under the AC2 plan. It was interesting that
while on a call on I-68 just west of Hancock, MD, the signal was full
strength approaching Sidling Hill, we lost the call while transversing
through the notch cut through the mountain, and picked up a strong
signal immediately on the other side. Some day, maybe a tower will be
placed at the visitor's center up there, and no calls will be lost.

BTW, we used to be on prepay that uses the old AT&T TDMA system, with
airtime resellers such as CallPlus and Beyond Wireless. Overall, it
was much cheaper than most service plans, as long as we used the phones
sparingly. That service has been steadily deteriorating to the point
of ridiculousness, and in comparison, VZW is a Godsend. The last straw
was the time the better half and I were in Columbia, MD, a local "AT&T"
area, at a shopping mall. Both phones had full signals. I dialed
once, and got a message that the "call cannot be completed at this
time". I dialed again, and was immediately sent to voicemail. The
third time, the call went through. With the AT&T system, at a mall in
Hagerstown, MD, an extended area, in order to make a call, one must
dial 111, wait for the voice prompts, and then manually dial the
number. It is "roaming" and airtime is charged at four minutes for
every minute used. Even with Beyond Wireless' rate of 11.7 cents per
minute, a fifteen second call to the better half is charged at a full
minute, times four due to being in an extended area, and double that
because both phones were "roaming". That 15 second call cost us almost
$1. (94 cents, to be exact). With VZW it is a free (m-m) call.

Before switching from prepay to a service plan, I took a hard look at
all the choices in the DC area. My main concerns were cost and
coverage. (We have a campsite in western MD, and I wanted to be sure
the phone worked there. That eliminated T-Mobile from the list).
Sprint's price structure was less attractive for the family plan, and
having been burned a while back by Sprint's coverage in our immediate
area as well as the campground, I scratched them off the list, as well
as Nextel. That left Cingular and Verizon. While their plans are
similar (Cingular does have rollover), my daughter pleaded with me not
to choose Cingular for our Family Plan, as a couple of her co-workers
just switched from Cingular to Verizon to get better coverage. So
Verizon won out, and we are pleased as punch that we made that choice.
The minutes we get on the Family Plan are more than adequate (used 150
out of 500 on the first month), so rollover is not a big factor. Great
coverage and no complaints so far.

Lena

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

>That 15 second call cost us almost
>$1. (94 cents, to be exact). With VZW it is a free (m-m) call.
>
>
>
Well, actually the call wasn't free, it was included in an "unlimited"
bucket of minutes, which you do pay for. If it was truly free, I could
hook up a verizon phone just to call VZW customers and have no monthly
bill. This applies to all carriers.

>Great
>coverage and no complaints so far.
>
>

That's good, if everything works for you, it was a good decision.

TH

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Carl Keehn wrote:

> In the Baltimore Washington area, you should get a solid signal even with
> ACII. The coverage maps reveal that West Virginia and the mountains would
> be the area that AC II doesn't cover, my understanding is that No cellular
> provider has particularly strong service in West Virginia.

That really depends. US Cellular covers a decent chunk of West Virginia and
has always been a VZW America's Choice roaming partner in that part of the
country. The last time I roamed on USCC for free in that area was late 2002,
but it still should be Extended Network.


--
Steve Sobol, Professional Geek 888-480-4638 PGP: 0xE3AE35ED
Company website: http://JustThe.net/
Personal blog, resume, portfolio: http://SteveSobol.com/
E: sjsobol@JustThe.net Snail: 22674 Motnocab Road, Apple Valley, CA 92307

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

"Lena" <lenagainster@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1124377036.856369.182600@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Once one leaves the Frederick area on I-70 westbound, coverage switches
> to "extended area", still under the AC2 plan. It was interesting that
> while on a call on I-68 just west of Hancock, MD, the signal was full
> strength approaching Sidling Hill, we lost the call while transversing
> through the notch cut through the mountain, and picked up a strong
> signal immediately on the other side. Some day, maybe a tower will be
> placed at the visitor's center up there, and no calls will be lost.
>
> BTW, we used to be on prepay that uses the old AT&T TDMA system, with
> airtime resellers such as CallPlus and Beyond Wireless. Overall, it
> was much cheaper than most service plans, as long as we used the phones
> sparingly. That service has been steadily deteriorating to the point
> of ridiculousness, and in comparison, VZW is a Godsend. The last straw
> was the time the better half and I were in Columbia, MD, a local "AT&T"
> area, at a shopping mall. Both phones had full signals. I dialed
> once, and got a message that the "call cannot be completed at this
> time". I dialed again, and was immediately sent to voicemail. The
> third time, the call went through. With the AT&T system, at a mall in
> Hagerstown, MD, an extended area, in order to make a call, one must
> dial 111, wait for the voice prompts, and then manually dial the
> number. It is "roaming" and airtime is charged at four minutes for
> every minute used. Even with Beyond Wireless' rate of 11.7 cents per
> minute, a fifteen second call to the better half is charged at a full
> minute, times four due to being in an extended area, and double that
> because both phones were "roaming". That 15 second call cost us almost
> $1. (94 cents, to be exact). With VZW it is a free (m-m) call.
>
> Before switching from prepay to a service plan, I took a hard look at
> all the choices in the DC area. My main concerns were cost and
> coverage. (We have a campsite in western MD, and I wanted to be sure
> the phone worked there. That eliminated T-Mobile from the list).
> Sprint's price structure was less attractive for the family plan, and
> having been burned a while back by Sprint's coverage in our immediate
> area as well as the campground, I scratched them off the list, as well
> as Nextel. That left Cingular and Verizon. While their plans are
> similar (Cingular does have rollover), my daughter pleaded with me not
> to choose Cingular for our Family Plan, as a couple of her co-workers
> just switched from Cingular to Verizon to get better coverage. So
> Verizon won out, and we are pleased as punch that we made that choice.
> The minutes we get on the Family Plan are more than adequate (used 150
> out of 500 on the first month), so rollover is not a big factor. Great
> coverage and no complaints so far.
>
> Lena
>

It sounds like your experience has been very much like ours. We had TDMA
service through ATT (not ATTWS) and were not terribly happy. The service
itself was just adequate, certainly the people that I called were well aware
that I was on a cell phone and I frequently had to repeat myself as the
signal would cut in and out. With Cingular purchasing ATTWS, the future
status of my service was in doubt and in fact, ATT had stopped offering the
ATT One package so they weren't offering much comfort. The final straw was
that any problem that I had was batted back and forth between ATT and ATTWS
with neither service offering much assistance.

When my committment to ATT was about to expire, I surveyed my family and my
wifes family and discovered that all of them were either on or had just
switched to Verizon. That certainly influenced my choice, that and the fact
that I did a test call on my in-laws phone one time when we were visiting
them, and called my parents. They couldn't tell I was calling from a cell
phone. Our usage is similar to yours, we have the 500 minute family plan
and haven't used more than 100 minutes a month. All the rest is either
weekend or MTM calling.

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

"Steve Sobol" <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote in message
newse3il5$6mf$3@ratbert.glorb.com...
> Carl Keehn wrote:
>
> > In the Baltimore Washington area, you should get a solid signal even
with
> > ACII. The coverage maps reveal that West Virginia and the mountains
would
> > be the area that AC II doesn't cover, my understanding is that No
cellular
> > provider has particularly strong service in West Virginia.
>
> That really depends. US Cellular covers a decent chunk of West Virginia
and
> has always been a VZW America's Choice roaming partner in that part of the
> country. The last time I roamed on USCC for free in that area was late
2002,
> but it still should be Extended Network.
>
>
> --
> Steve Sobol, Professional Geek 888-480-4638 PGP: 0xE3AE35ED
> Company website: http://JustThe.net/
> Personal blog, resume, portfolio: http://SteveSobol.com/
> E: sjsobol@JustThe.net Snail: 22674 Motnocab Road, Apple Valley, CA 92307

I think we're tangled in semantics here. You are referring to coverage, I
am referring to service. I understan