Archived from groups: alt.cellular.motorola,alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

I have a Motorola CDMA V60 in perfect working condition. I called Verizon
today to have it activated on my PrePay account, to replace the ST7868W that
I'm using on that account now.

The rep said that, as of June 2005, Verizon will NOT activate a phone that
is not GPS enabled for the enhanced 911 service.

Does that mean that my V60 is now a doorstop, or might it have some value in
Canada or another country that uses CDMA? Is there any way to get VZW to
budge on this issue?

Thanks.

- ESJ
remove both x's from my e-mail address

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Perhaps this is because you want to activate it on a prepaid account.
Prepaids were known in the past for "shady" activities, and maybe they
want the ability to track people in the event theyre using a prepaid
phone (no paper trail or credit check) to make ransom calls or
something. Just a thought.

What you need to find out, is whether or not the rep has the _ability_
to punch your ESN in, or if the computer sees that it's an old phone
and won't let them assign that ESN to your account. Either way, you
bought the equipment, it's yours to use however long you want, so keep
pestering them and don't give up, and document all your communication
with verizon when it comes time to sue them.


--
impretzle
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cell Phone Forums: http://cellphoneforums.net
View this thread: http://cellphoneforums.net/t182699.html

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.motorola,alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

"E Jones" <earl_jonesx@usax.net> wrote in
news:ypbEe.27705$yC5.9244@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com:

> Does that mean that my V60 is now a doorstop

Yep.....Isn't Homeland SEcurity wonderful?

--
Larry

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.motorola,alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

>> "E Jones" <earl_jonesx@usax.net> wrote in
>> news:ypbEe.27705$yC5.9244@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com:
>>
>> Does that mean that my V60 is now a doorstop
>>
>"Larry" <noone@home.com> wrote in message
>news:Xns969BD4BFB81EFnoone@63.223.7.253...
> Yep.....Isn't Homeland SEcurity wonderful?
>
> --
> Larry
>
Homeland Security has NOTHING to do with it.
It's a matter of being able to locate the caller if they can not
provide their location.

And I thought _I_ was a conspiriosy theorist.


--
Andrew D. Sisson

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.motorola,alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

In article <PQrEe.40815$e%5.33006@twister.nyroc.rr.com>, Andy S
<adsisson@NOrochesterSPAM.rr.com> wrote:

> Homeland Security has NOTHING to do with it.
> It's a matter of being able to locate the caller if they can not
> provide their location.
>
> And I thought _I_ was a conspiriosy theorist.

It has to do with the FCC rules on enhanced 911. The CDMA carriers have
a deadline of December 31, 2005 to comply. I believe 95% of the
handsets have to be GPS capable so they can be located on 911 calls.
From what I have read the expected natural attrition rate has been
slower than predicted, that is there is a larger number of pre GPS
handsets still being used than was expected. So they have to move you
to a new handset one way or another to comply with the law.

I am hoping as the deadline gets closer they will offer some great
deals to get me to change to a GPS phone from my V60.

--
Charles

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.motorola,alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

On Sat, 23 Jul 2005 10:23:59 -0400, Charles <fort514@mac.com> wrote:
>It has to do with the FCC rules on enhanced 911. The CDMA carriers have
>a deadline of December 31, 2005 to comply. I believe 95% of the
>handsets have to be GPS capable so they can be located on 911 calls.
>From what I have read the expected natural attrition rate has been
>slower than predicted, that is there is a larger number of pre GPS
>handsets still being used than was expected. So they have to move you
>to a new handset one way or another to comply with the law.

Hope this isn't a silly question - but can't they triangulate the handset
position in the way GSM operators can?

--
-- Michael "Soruk" McConnell
Eridani Star System

MailStripper - http://mailstripper.eridani.co.uk/
Mail Me Anywhere - http://www.mailmeanywhere.com/

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.motorola,alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

In article <slrnde4u02.49f.soruk@zeskia.int.eridani.co.uk>, Soruk
<soruk@bitbucket.eridani.co.uk> wrote:

> Hope this isn't a silly question - but can't they triangulate the handset
> position in the way GSM operators can?

They may have been able to choose that way to comply. I don't know if
there is any technical reason having to do with CDMA that was involved.
However they did chose GPS. As I understand it CDMA uses GPS for timing
so using GPS for loaction so using GPS was probably the lower cost
solution.

--
Charles

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.motorola,alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Charles <fort514@mac.com> wrote in news:230720051023592224%fort514@mac.com:

> I am hoping as the deadline gets closer they will offer some great
> deals to get me to change to a GPS phone from my V60.
>
>

Me too!....(c;

--
Larry

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.motorola,alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Andy S suggests:

>>> Does that mean that my V60 is now a doorstop

>> Yep.....Isn't Homeland SEcurity wonderful?

> Homeland Security has NOTHING to do with it.
> It's a matter of being able to locate the
> caller if they can not provide their location.

This sounds like The Matrix.

I can see it now.

Your cell phone rings. You answer it.

Morpheous: Do you know who I am?
Neo: Morpheous?
Morpheous: Yesss! Look up, slowly.
Neo: Holy <censor>!
Morpheous: You got that right! You see that door by the copy machine?
Neo: Yes...
Morpheous: Go there...
Neo: Huh?
Morpheous: Now - go!
Neo: I'm in.
Morpheous: You see the scaffolding outside the window?
Neo: How do you know this?
Morpheous: You'll need the scaffolding to get to the roof.
Neo: No way! Is Verizon Wireless after me for using up all my minutes?
Morpheous: There's two ways out, to the roof or in their custody.
Neo: That's the last time I download those ringtones!

To answer your question, "What is the Matrix"... it is the future of Verizon
Wireless and the GPS system.

But if you truly believe that lie, then perhaps you'd believe that taking
the blue pill will ease your mind.

But as we all know, you will choose the red pill because you want to know
why the government wants all cellular phones to have GPS enabled.

As in the words from the movie, "They're watching you, Neo".

--
______________
=====fish=====

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.motorola,alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Soruk wrote:
> On Sat, 23 Jul 2005 10:23:59 -0400, Charles <fort514@mac.com> wrote:
> Hope this isn't a silly question - but can't they triangulate the handset
> position in the way GSM operators can?

The theory is that the gpsOne system will provide better location info,
since it uses both aGPS and triangulation. aGPS uses the towers to get
the bulk of the info needed for the GPS protocol, and sends that info to
the phone, which only has to get the timing on a few bytes from the
satellites, so it (theoretically) will work indoors. The triangulation
part has the phone doing the measurements of how far it is from the
towers, so it still requires software in the phone, unlike how the GSM
folks are doing it. The idea of using two different techniques is that
they tend to be complementary: If you are in a rural area, you may only
be seeing one or two towers, which makes triangulation difficult, but
aGPS is likely to be able to see a bunch of satellites. In cities with a
lot of tall buildings, there are lots of towers to triangulate against,
but maybe only one satellite (or none) can be seen.

aGPS is a product of Snaptrack, which is a subsidiary of Qualcomm, who
makes the CDMA chipsets in most CDMA phones. aGPS is included on that
chipset. Since GPS itself uses a CDMA air interface (albeit a totally
different protocol than what is used in the cellular network), QualComm
had some expertise in how to do design the things.

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.motorola,alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

fish wrote:
> But as we all know, you will choose the red pill because you want to know
> why the government wants all cellular phones to have GPS enabled.

The government does not require GPS. The require that 911 callers be
located within certain accuracy. The GSM providers have chosen a
triangulation-based process to meet the requirement. The CDMA providers
have chosen to use gpsOne, which is a combo GPS/triangulation scheme.

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.motorola,alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

CharlesH <hoch@exemplary.invalid> wrote in
news:k6KEe.6388$_%4.2743@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com:

> The government does not require GPS. The require that 911 callers be
> located within certain accuracy. The GSM providers have chosen a
> triangulation-based process to meet the requirement. The CDMA providers
> have chosen to use gpsOne, which is a combo GPS/triangulation scheme.
>
>

Yes, just ignore the fact the phone can be polled, quietly from the switch,
and responds with your location within 3 feet of its exact WGS84 location
if it can see 3 GPS birds, any ol' time the DEA or FBI wants.....(c;

--
Larry

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.motorola,alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Larry wrote:
> CharlesH <hoch@exemplary.invalid> wrote in
> news:k6KEe.6388$_%4.2743@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com:
>
>>The government does not require GPS. The require that 911 callers be
>>located within certain accuracy. The GSM providers have chosen a
>>triangulation-based process to meet the requirement. The CDMA providers
>>have chosen to use gpsOne, which is a combo GPS/triangulation scheme.
>
> Yes, just ignore the fact the phone can be polled, quietly from the switch,
> and responds with your location within 3 feet of its exact WGS84 location
> if it can see 3 GPS birds, any ol' time the DEA or FBI wants.....(c;

They could always have located you to a particular sector of a
particular tower when your phone registers. It's just gotten a bit more
precise....

I don't know how precise the triangulation technique used by the GSM
providers is.

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.motorola,alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

On Sun, 24 Jul 2005 12:44:11 -0400, Larry <noone@home.com> chose to add
this to the great equation of life, the universe, and everything:

>CharlesH <hoch@exemplary.invalid> wrote in
>news:k6KEe.6388$_%4.2743@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com:
>
>> The government does not require GPS. The require that 911 callers be
>> located within certain accuracy. The GSM providers have chosen a
>> triangulation-based process to meet the requirement. The CDMA providers
>> have chosen to use gpsOne, which is a combo GPS/triangulation scheme.
>
>Yes, just ignore the fact the phone can be polled, quietly from the switch,
>and responds with your location within 3 feet of its exact WGS84 location
>if it can see 3 GPS birds, any ol' time the DEA or FBI wants.....(c;

If the DEA wants to waste its time tracking me down, it's welcome to. I
have never even done as much as Bill Clinton (the "not inhale" thing).

However (and if someone other than Larry can answer and thus provide real
facts, that'd be great) can the FBI or anybody else override the menu
setting in my phone that enables GPS only in Emergency Mode?

--
David Streeter, "an internet god" -- Dave Barry
http://home.att.net/~dwstreeter
Remove the naughty bit from my address to reply
Expect a train on ANY track at ANY time.
"Ah, yes, divorce...from the Latin word meaning to rip out a man's genitals
through his wallet." - Robin Williams

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.motorola,alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 03:53:32 GMT, I <me> chose to add this to the great
equation of life, the universe, and everything:

>On Sun, 24 Jul 2005 12:44:11 -0400, Larry <noone@home.com> chose to add
>this to the great equation of life, the universe, and everything:
>
>>CharlesH <hoch@exemplary.invalid> wrote in
>>news:k6KEe.6388$_%4.2743@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com:
>>
>>> The government does not require GPS. The require that 911 callers be
>>> located within certain accuracy. The GSM providers have chosen a
>>> triangulation-based process to meet the requirement. The CDMA providers
>>> have chosen to use gpsOne, which is a combo GPS/triangulation scheme.
>>
>>Yes, just ignore the fact the phone can be polled, quietly from the switch,
>>and responds with your location within 3 feet of its exact WGS84 location
>>if it can see 3 GPS birds, any ol' time the DEA or FBI wants.....(c;
>
>However <snip> can the FBI or anybody else override the menu
>setting in my phone that enables GPS only in Emergency Mode?

I will take the lack of a reply as a negative. That leads to the next
question: do all phones have that option?

--
David Streeter, "an internet god" -- Dave Barry
http://home.att.net/~dwstreeter
Remove the naughty bit from my address to reply
Expect a train on ANY track at ANY time.
"Any time I can compare Shakespeare to 'Andy Griffith,' I'm a happy
critic." - Dean Richards, WGN Radio/TV