Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

It sounds like a desperate attempt by a competitor to discredit a
successful campaign. However, looking at the details they are indicating
that only people who travel in airports regularly know about Centrino,
and obviously ... techies. But the rest of Mr. or Ms. Joe or Jane
Average? Nada.

Yousuf Khan

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 22:07:42 -0500, Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@ezrs.com>
wrote:

>It sounds like a desperate attempt by a competitor to discredit a
>successful campaign. However, looking at the details they are indicating
>that only people who travel in airports regularly know about Centrino,
>and obviously ... techies. But the rest of Mr. or Ms. Joe or Jane
>Average? Nada.

I think where Centrino has REALLY succeeded, despite what AMD is
saying, is in convincing the laptop manufacturers. Just have a look
at what the likes of Toshiba and IBM are selling, it's damn near ALL
Centrino laptops. Whether or not customers buying laptops actually
care is another matter, but the marketing money Intel is providing
along with the Centrino brand is doing wonders for moving products.

-------------
Tony Hill
hilla <underscore> 20 <at> yahoo <dot> ca

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 22:07:42 -0500, Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@ezrs.com>
wrote:

>It sounds like a desperate attempt by a competitor to discredit a
>successful campaign. However, looking at the details they are indicating
>that only people who travel in airports regularly know about Centrino,
>and obviously ... techies. But the rest of Mr. or Ms. Joe or Jane
>Average? Nada.
>

Google up

centrino brand strength

and wade through the links yourself. :-).

All the players are smart, all know about marketing and branding, all
know that marketing and branding cost money. Intel has lots of money,
but they are under constant pressure to keep their margins in line.
How would you spend the money?

Brands are very, very expensive, but every marketer wants a
recognizable brand, and whether a brand is "recognizable" or not may
depend on how you ask the question. Look at enough notebooks and
notebook ads with the Centrino logo, and the brand becomes
recognizable, if only from the distinctive shape of the logo--that's
why really good graphics designers make so much. To the prospective
buyer, that logo becomes a feature they want to have, even if they
don't know why (cf. Corinthian leather).

To turn the question around: how much market clout do you think an AMD
logo has?

RM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 08:11:24 -0500, Robert Myers <rmyers1400@comcast.net>
wrote:

>On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 22:07:42 -0500, Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@ezrs.com>
>wrote:
>
>>It sounds like a desperate attempt by a competitor to discredit a
>>successful campaign. However, looking at the details they are indicating
>>that only people who travel in airports regularly know about Centrino,
>>and obviously ... techies. But the rest of Mr. or Ms. Joe or Jane
>>Average? Nada.
>>
>
>Google up
>
>centrino brand strength
>
>and wade through the links yourself. :-).
>
>All the players are smart, all know about marketing and branding, all
>know that marketing and branding cost money. Intel has lots of money,
>but they are under constant pressure to keep their margins in line.
>How would you spend the money?
>
>Brands are very, very expensive, but every marketer wants a
>recognizable brand, and whether a brand is "recognizable" or not may
>depend on how you ask the question. Look at enough notebooks and
>notebook ads with the Centrino logo, and the brand becomes
>recognizable, if only from the distinctive shape of the logo--that's
>why really good graphics designers make so much. To the prospective
>buyer, that logo becomes a feature they want to have, even if they
>don't know why (cf. Corinthian leather).

Was (fine) Corinthian Leather really all that successful? Most people
don't know what Centrino is anyway - it's generally perceived as meaning an
Intel CPU... with a possible assocation with long battery life.

>To turn the question around: how much market clout do you think an AMD
>logo has?

If you watch F1 or the Tour de France... maybe? How much clout does Lance
have in the U.S.?<shrug> It's just the wrong color - most people hate
green [try to sell a green car]; they should change it to sky-blue or maybe
puce.</facetious>

--
Rgds, George Macdonald

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

Yousuf Khan wrote:
> It sounds like a desperate attempt by a competitor to discredit a
> successful campaign. However, looking at the details they are indicating
> that only people who travel in airports regularly know about Centrino,
> and obviously ... techies. But the rest of Mr. or Ms. Joe or Jane
> Average? Nada.
>
> Yousuf Khan

Oops, forgot to paste the link:

Intel Centrino brand weak, AMD thinks
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=21073

Yousuf Khan

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

Robert Myers wrote:
> To turn the question around: how much market clout do you think an AMD
> logo has?

Funny, you should ask, looks like AMD is asking itself the same question:

AMD strikes back at Intel brand hegemony
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=20890

Yousuf Khan

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 17:12:32 -0500, George Macdonald
<fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com> wrote:

>On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 08:11:24 -0500, Robert Myers <rmyers1400@comcast.net>
>wrote:
>Was (fine) Corinthian Leather really all that successful? Most people
>don't know what Centrino is anyway - it's generally perceived as meaning an
>Intel CPU... with a possible assocation with long battery life.

No no no! Centrino means that you can use WiFi at the top of Mount
Everest! Dontcha know?!? Geez.. If you've got Centrino than you can
use WiFi ANYWHERE! Just watch the commercials! :>

>>To turn the question around: how much market clout do you think an AMD
>>logo has?
>
>If you watch F1 or the Tour de France... maybe? How much clout does Lance
>have in the U.S.?<shrug> It's just the wrong color - most people hate
>green [try to sell a green car]; they should change it to sky-blue or maybe
>puce.</facetious>

Hmm.. I guess I yet again do not fit the standard profile. Not only
do I rather like green, but I also watch F1 and have even been known
to catch the odd bit of the Tour. Maybe that's why I like AMD
processors?! :>

-------------
Tony Hill
hilla <underscore> 20 <at> yahoo <dot> ca

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

Using a finger dipped in purple ink, Tony Hill <hilla_nospam_20@yahoo.ca> scribed:

>No no no! Centrino means that you can use WiFi at the top of Mount
>Everest! Dontcha know?!? Geez.. If you've got Centrino than you can
>use WiFi ANYWHERE! Just watch the commercials! :>

Yeah, in the middle of a park with NOTHING around for hundreds of yards!

That Intel, they're really good at (make up something)...





--

The truth is out there,

but it's not interesting enough for most people.

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 23:02:04 -0500, Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@ezrs.com>
wrote:

>Robert Myers wrote:

>> To turn the question around: how much market clout do you think an AMD
>> logo has?
>
>Funny, you should ask, looks like AMD is asking itself the same question:
>
>AMD strikes back at Intel brand hegemony
>http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=20890
>
> Yousuf Khan

I'm glad to see that AMD has started paying more attention to my posts
to comp.*. ;-).

It's an ancient story. A better mousetrap just isn't good enough.

At the risk of dragging the discussion off-topic, another organization
that seems to have gotten religion is NASA:

http://origins.jpl.nasa.gov/about/index.html

I didn't direct you to the actual homepage of the Origins program,
because _it_ is still stuck in classic NASA
look-at-the-latest-metal-we-hurled-at-the-heavens mentality. With
that little misstep, though, NASA seems finally to have grasped that
it is more important to tell an engaging story than it is to do the
impossible.

RM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 17:12:32 -0500, George Macdonald
<fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com> wrote:

>On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 08:11:24 -0500, Robert Myers <rmyers1400@comcast.net>
>wrote:
>

<snip>

>>
>>Brands are very, very expensive, but every marketer wants a
>>recognizable brand, and whether a brand is "recognizable" or not may
>>depend on how you ask the question. Look at enough notebooks and
>>notebook ads with the Centrino logo, and the brand becomes
>>recognizable, if only from the distinctive shape of the logo--that's
>>why really good graphics designers make so much. To the prospective
>>buyer, that logo becomes a feature they want to have, even if they
>>don't know why (cf. Corinthian leather).
>
>Was (fine) Corinthian Leather really all that successful?

Corinthian Leather was successful enough to get a writeup in the Wall
Street Journal, and Chrysler stuck with the ad campaign through many
millions of dollars. I think that campaign was well into the focus
group era. Did it sell cars? Would I be spending time here if I
_really_ knew the answer to questions like that? ;-).

>Most people
>don't know what Centrino is anyway - it's generally perceived as meaning an
>Intel CPU... with a possible assocation with long battery life.
>

But it doesn't matter. It's a feature. The feature, you argue, is
poorly correlated in the minds of potential buyers with actual
benefits, but that doesn't matter if it's a feature people want.

If I'm not mistaken, full Centrino is more expensive than
Pentium-M+855 Chipset+OEM-supplied wireless. The OEM is buying the ad
campaign, not the functionality.

>>To turn the question around: how much market clout do you think an AMD
>>logo has?
>
>If you watch F1 or the Tour de France... maybe? How much clout does Lance
>have in the U.S.?<shrug>

Why would an American spend his time riding a bicycle in _France_?
Real men don't ride bicycles, they don't wear shorts like that, they
don't spend time in France or, if forced to do so, don't advertise it,
and they don't use AMD processors. People who ride bicycles, wear
shorts like that, spend time in France, and/or use AMD processors
probably spend their spare time playing weird computer games.

>It's just the wrong color - most people hate
>green [try to sell a green car]; they should change it to sky-blue or maybe
>puce.</facetious>

I liked your analysis of Sempron better. ;-).

RM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 10:28:29 GMT, Never anonymous Bud
<newskat@katxyzkave.net> wrote:

>Using a finger dipped in purple ink, Tony Hill <hilla_nospam_20@yahoo.ca> scribed:
>
>>No no no! Centrino means that you can use WiFi at the top of Mount
>>Everest! Dontcha know?!? Geez.. If you've got Centrino than you can
>>use WiFi ANYWHERE! Just watch the commercials! :>
>
>Yeah, in the middle of a park with NOTHING around for hundreds of yards!
>
>That Intel, they're really good at (make up something)...

Marketing?

-------------
Tony Hill
hilla <underscore> 20 <at> yahoo <dot> ca

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 10:46:01 -0500, Robert Myers
<rmyers1400@comcast.net> wrote:

>If I'm not mistaken, full Centrino is more expensive than
>Pentium-M+855 Chipset+OEM-supplied wireless. The OEM is buying the ad
>campaign, not the functionality.

The OEM is NOT buying the ad campaign at all, they're getting PAID for
the ad campaign. Intel provides BIG-$$$ for companies to advertise
their laptops as "Centrino Mobile Technology", complete with the Intel
symbol and badda-bing. If you just buy the Pentium-M + chipset but
use a different WiFi chip than you gotta foot the entire marketing
bill to advertise your products. Add in that Intel WiFi chip though
and call it Centrino and Intel will basically cover all of your
marketing costs.

-------------
Tony Hill
hilla <underscore> 20 <at> yahoo <dot> ca

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 15:24:58 -0500, Tony Hill wrote:

> On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 10:28:29 GMT, Never anonymous Bud
> <newskat@katxyzkave.net> wrote:
>
>>Using a finger dipped in purple ink, Tony Hill <hilla_nospam_20@yahoo.ca> scribed:
>>
>>>No no no! Centrino means that you can use WiFi at the top of Mount
>>>Everest! Dontcha know?!? Geez.. If you've got Centrino than you can
>>>use WiFi ANYWHERE! Just watch the commercials! :>
>>
>>Yeah, in the middle of a park with NOTHING around for hundreds of yards!
>>
>>That Intel, they're really good at (make up something)...
>
> Marketing?
>
> -------------
> Tony Hill
> hilla <underscore> 20 <at> yahoo <dot> ca

I am still waiting for Intel or AMD to do something like the Vonage
commercials. you know "People do stupid things" then you insert a guy in a
blue Centrino shirt, or in a green AMD shirt, do something really stupid
with a computer. Or have a big pop up screen, telling the user to right
click, show the user pounding on the left mouse button. Oh don't forget
that catchy tune, that in itself is probably what makes the commercials so
funny. But we all know that who ever did that would probably have the
attorneys knocking on their doors with defamation law suites.

Gnu_Raiz

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

Tony Hill wrote:
> No no no! Centrino means that you can use WiFi at the top of Mount
> Everest! Dontcha know?!? Geez.. If you've got Centrino than you can
> use WiFi ANYWHERE! Just watch the commercials! :>

I think I can recall seeing in fine print on those Intel commercials
that they were saying that there was WiFi at some basestation of
Everest. Of course that had little to do with the images they were
showing on the commercial itself, which really made it clear that these
climbers must've been 10,000 feet up already.

Yousuf Khan

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

Tony Hill wrote:
>>Yeah, in the middle of a park with NOTHING around for hundreds of yards!
>>
>>That Intel, they're really good at (make up something)...
>
>
> Marketing?

While AMD's marketing department recently had to pull some radio ads
from Belgium or the Netherlands or somewhere like that, because they
were claiming that their NX-bit technology was a substitute for
anti-virus software. Seems Intel gets away with a few things which AMD
gets caught for.

Yousuf Khan

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 10:46:01 -0500, Robert Myers <rmyers1400@comcast.net>
wrote:

>On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 17:12:32 -0500, George Macdonald
><fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 08:11:24 -0500, Robert Myers <rmyers1400@comcast.net>
>>wrote:
>>
>
><snip>
>
>>>
>>>Brands are very, very expensive, but every marketer wants a
>>>recognizable brand, and whether a brand is "recognizable" or not may
>>>depend on how you ask the question. Look at enough notebooks and
>>>notebook ads with the Centrino logo, and the brand becomes
>>>recognizable, if only from the distinctive shape of the logo--that's
>>>why really good graphics designers make so much. To the prospective
>>>buyer, that logo becomes a feature they want to have, even if they
>>>don't know why (cf. Corinthian leather).
>>
>>Was (fine) Corinthian Leather really all that successful?
>
>Corinthian Leather was successful enough to get a writeup in the Wall
>Street Journal, and Chrysler stuck with the ad campaign through many
>millions of dollars. I think that campaign was well into the focus
>group era. Did it sell cars? Would I be spending time here if I
>_really_ knew the answer to questions like that? ;-).

Figures... all Chrysler had going for it by then was err, seats! Focus
group era? Did that correspond with what was known as the "pussification"
of American industry?

>>Most people
>>don't know what Centrino is anyway - it's generally perceived as meaning an
>>Intel CPU... with a possible assocation with long battery life.
>>
>
>But it doesn't matter. It's a feature. The feature, you argue, is
>poorly correlated in the minds of potential buyers with actual
>benefits, but that doesn't matter if it's a feature people want.
>
>If I'm not mistaken, full Centrino is more expensive than
>Pentium-M+855 Chipset+OEM-supplied wireless. The OEM is buying the ad
>campaign, not the functionality.

The pricing of non-Centrino Wi-Fi wasn't much different about a year ago...
though I don't bother to look beyond Thinkpads much. Currently, there's
very little competitive offerings that I see; IBM has a very few Thinkpads
with "IBM 11b/g Wireless", which may be Cisco parts(?), in their top end
systems but also in a couple of lower end systems. IOW if you wanted to
avoid Centrino now, it'd be kinda difficult but the price is not much
different, from what I see.

>>>To turn the question around: how much market clout do you think an AMD
>>>logo has?
>>
>>If you watch F1 or the Tour de France... maybe? How much clout does Lance
>>have in the U.S.?<shrug>
>
>Why would an American spend his time riding a bicycle in _France_?
>Real men don't ride bicycles, they don't wear shorts like that, they
>don't spend time in France or, if forced to do so, don't advertise it,
>and they don't use AMD processors.

Uh-huh - "real men" sit around drinking beer, watching steroid-induced
monsters in heavily padded clothing trying to beat each other to death?
They go to the gym 3 times a week but don't ask them to walk two blocks to
get there.:-)

> People who ride bicycles, wear
>shorts like that, spend time in France, and/or use AMD processors
>probably spend their spare time playing weird computer games.

Something about the shorts that I've missed?:-) Ever watch Paris-Roubaix?
Now these are the *real* hard men.

--
Rgds, George Macdonald

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

On Sun, 06 Feb 2005 01:53:02 -0500, George Macdonald
<fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com> wrote:

>On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 10:46:01 -0500, Robert Myers <rmyers1400@comcast.net>
>wrote:
>

<snip>

>
>>>>To turn the question around: how much market clout do you think an AMD
>>>>logo has?
>>>
>>>If you watch F1 or the Tour de France... maybe? How much clout does Lance
>>>have in the U.S.?<shrug>
>>
>>Why would an American spend his time riding a bicycle in _France_?
>>Real men don't ride bicycles, they don't wear shorts like that, they
>>don't spend time in France or, if forced to do so, don't advertise it,
>>and they don't use AMD processors.
>
>Uh-huh - "real men" sit around drinking beer, watching steroid-induced
>monsters in heavily padded clothing trying to beat each other to death?
>They go to the gym 3 times a week but don't ask them to walk two blocks to
>get there.:-)
>
>> People who ride bicycles, wear
>>shorts like that, spend time in France, and/or use AMD processors
>>probably spend their spare time playing weird computer games.
>
>Something about the shorts that I've missed?:-) Ever watch Paris-Roubaix?
>Now these are the *real* hard men.

For my own part, I'm fond of Proust. For whatever it's worth, though,
I think my attempted send-up of why Lance Armstrong isn't that
effective for selling outside AMD's core constituency
(anti-establishment gamers) reflects fairly well the level of
rationality at which people actually make these decisions, which is to
say that it isn't rational at all.

Or, oh well, there probably is some rationality there, but I wouldn't
claim to be smart enough to parse it. Intel's marketing is: buy what
you're familiar with and what you know will work; no expatriate
Americans on bicycles in France for that message. AMD's message is:
the same old, same old isn't always the best--(gasp!) American winning
(gasp!) the Tour de France is exactly on message. AMD really can't
build its brand in quite the same way as Intel...

And at some level, the really important buyers have to understand
that. AMD, for all its accomplishments, is still in the "prove it"
division. Lance Armstrong just the right image for that spot, I
guess; he has to have made believers of the French (other than those
who firmly believe his success is the result of illegal drugs).

But Lance Armstrong has ridden his last or next to last tour? DEC is
no more. IBM is still chugging along (although you may have to review
your choice of laptop).

RM