Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware (More info?)

Hi guys, after several years I have run out of power on my old 700
MHz Duron system and now want something new.

I don't play games, I am not a power user, I don't do video or audio
editing. I just surf and do some small office activities.

I had thought of upgrading my current system to a T'bred 2400+ but
the PSU is not big enough and the case is a bit small, so I will
build a new system instead.

A Barton 2500+ (with maybe an Asus A78NX mobo) is more than enough
power for me but am I buying into obsolescence? Athlon64 is where
the growth will be and furture residual values will be higher than
for Barton.

Are there any other advantages of Athlon64 for a user like me other
than that?

Are there particular disadvantages ... e.g. more expensive mobos
for athlon64? more expensive memory?

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware (More info?)

Franklin (franklin_lo@mail.com) wrote...
> Hi guys, after several years I have run out of power on my old 700
> MHz Duron system and now want something new.
>
> I don't play games, I am not a power user, I don't do video or audio
> editing. I just surf and do some small office activities.

So what app is giving you the urge to upgrade?

> I had thought of upgrading my current system to a T'bred 2400+ but
> the PSU is not big enough and the case is a bit small, so I will
> build a new system instead.

OK.

> A Barton 2500+ (with maybe an Asus A78NX mobo) is more than enough
> power for me but am I buying into obsolescence? Athlon64 is where
> the growth will be and furture residual values will be higher than
> for Barton.

Whatever you buy, you are buying into obsolescence. It's guaranteed
with computers. All you can vary is how long before it is reached.

If you keep this machine as long as you have presumably kept your
Duron 700, then the difference in used value will be pretty
negligible, IMHO. What's the difference between a Duron 700 and
Athlon 1200 (say) today? Not a lot....

> Are there any other advantages of Athlon64 for a user like me other
> than that?

Umm. It's faster. If you have the urge to try a 64-bit OS then you
can. It's good for bragging rights. Your hair will start to grow
thicker, and more luxurient. Women will find you strangely
attractive. Sorry. I've been reading too much marketing material.
>
> Are there particular disadvantages ... e.g. more expensive mobos
> for athlon64? more expensive memory?

The whole system will cost a fair bit more, as you suggest. Mobos
and memory will be pricier.

My advice is to set some parameters for the upgrade. Either set a
performance goal (I want it X times faster than current) and then
investigate acheiving that for the minimum outlay, or set a financial
limit (no more than UKP 500, say), and buy the fastest you can for
that.

Without a real idea of what you want you may end up disappointed,
broke, or both.

Ian

--
Ian Riches
Bedford, UK

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware (More info?)

In article <MPG.1ba7db02e9da7621989766@News.Individual.Net>,
Ian Riches <ianriches@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Franklin (franklin_lo@mail.com) wrote...
>> Hi guys, after several years I have run out of power on my old 700
>> MHz Duron system and now want something new.
>>
>> I don't play games, I am not a power user, I don't do video or audio
>> editing. I just surf and do some small office activities.
>
>So what app is giving you the urge to upgrade?
>
>> I had thought of upgrading my current system to a T'bred 2400+ but
>> the PSU is not big enough and the case is a bit small, so I will
>> build a new system instead.
>
>OK.
>
>> A Barton 2500+ (with maybe an Asus A78NX mobo) is more than enough
>> power for me but am I buying into obsolescence? Athlon64 is where
>> the growth will be and furture residual values will be higher than
>> for Barton.
>
>Whatever you buy, you are buying into obsolescence. It's guaranteed
>with computers. All you can vary is how long before it is reached.
>
>If you keep this machine as long as you have presumably kept your
>Duron 700, then the difference in used value will be pretty
>negligible, IMHO. What's the difference between a Duron 700 and
>Athlon 1200 (say) today? Not a lot....
>


What I've heard of Longhorn, the next full new release of Windows
(2006?) will require a machine comparable to a dual Opteron
in today's terms. In 2006 that machine will probably cost $500.
(all of this is vapor, so don't hold me to it. Billy can shange hos
mind at any time.)

Buy a machine in the "sweet spot" for price performance today, which
might be a midrange Athlon on a NIC/SOund/Video the motherboard
machine.

Spend the money you save on the system on a nice big LCD screen,
and good sound.

You'll be able to buy a "Longhorn Inside" machine 3 years from
now for less than the cheap machine you buy today. It will
probbaly be 64 bits, but why do you care ?

My $0.02.


>> Are there any other advantages of Athlon64 for a user like me other
>> than that?
>
>Umm. It's faster. If you have the urge to try a 64-bit OS then you
>can. It's good for bragging rights. Your hair will start to grow
>thicker, and more luxurient. Women will find you strangely
>attractive. Sorry. I've been reading too much marketing material.
>>
>> Are there particular disadvantages ... e.g. more expensive mobos
>> for athlon64? more expensive memory?
>
>The whole system will cost a fair bit more, as you suggest. Mobos
>and memory will be pricier.
>
>My advice is to set some parameters for the upgrade. Either set a
>performance goal (I want it X times faster than current) and then
>investigate acheiving that for the minimum outlay, or set a financial
>limit (no more than UKP 500, say), and buy the fastest you can for
>that.
>
>Without a real idea of what you want you may end up disappointed,
>broke, or both.
>
>Ian
>
>--
>Ian Riches
>Bedford, UK


--
Al Dykes
-----------
adykes at p a n i x . c o m

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware (More info?)

Cheers Ian.

I'm in a similar position. Have a 2000XP system right now with 512Mb PC2100
RAM. Running a bit hot.

Looking for something to multitask faster (I have lots of open programs and
play music, TV in background).

*Very* tight budget. Have £200 to spend for new set-up (mobo, cpu and ram -
if needed?). Any ideas?

Cheers.

Bobby
"Ian Riches" <ianriches@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1ba7db02e9da7621989766@News.Individual.Net...
> Franklin (franklin_lo@mail.com) wrote...
>> Hi guys, after several years I have run out of power on my old 700
>> MHz Duron system and now want something new.
>>
>> I don't play games, I am not a power user, I don't do video or audio
>> editing. I just surf and do some small office activities.
>
> So what app is giving you the urge to upgrade?
>
>> I had thought of upgrading my current system to a T'bred 2400+ but
>> the PSU is not big enough and the case is a bit small, so I will
>> build a new system instead.
>
> OK.
>
>> A Barton 2500+ (with maybe an Asus A78NX mobo) is more than enough
>> power for me but am I buying into obsolescence? Athlon64 is where
>> the growth will be and furture residual values will be higher than
>> for Barton.
>
> Whatever you buy, you are buying into obsolescence. It's guaranteed
> with computers. All you can vary is how long before it is reached.
>
> If you keep this machine as long as you have presumably kept your
> Duron 700, then the difference in used value will be pretty
> negligible, IMHO. What's the difference between a Duron 700 and
> Athlon 1200 (say) today? Not a lot....
>
>> Are there any other advantages of Athlon64 for a user like me other
>> than that?
>
> Umm. It's faster. If you have the urge to try a 64-bit OS then you
> can. It's good for bragging rights. Your hair will start to grow
> thicker, and more luxurient. Women will find you strangely
> attractive. Sorry. I've been reading too much marketing material.
>>
>> Are there particular disadvantages ... e.g. more expensive mobos
>> for athlon64? more expensive memory?
>
> The whole system will cost a fair bit more, as you suggest. Mobos
> and memory will be pricier.
>
> My advice is to set some parameters for the upgrade. Either set a
> performance goal (I want it X times faster than current) and then
> investigate acheiving that for the minimum outlay, or set a financial
> limit (no more than UKP 500, say), and buy the fastest you can for
> that.
>
> Without a real idea of what you want you may end up disappointed,
> broke, or both.
>
> Ian
>
> --
> Ian Riches
> Bedford, UK

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware (More info?)

Franklin wrote:

> Hi guys, after several years I have run out of power on my old 700
> MHz Duron system and now want something new.
>
> I don't play games, I am not a power user, I don't do video or audio
> editing. I just surf and do some small office activities.

An Athlon XP processor would be your best value then.

>
>
> I had thought of upgrading my current system to a T'bred 2400+ but
> the PSU is not big enough and the case is a bit small, so I will
> build a new system instead.

You could buy a new case, an Athlon XP, and new ram. That would probably
be good if you plan to upgrade to a socket 939 Athlon 64 in 18-24 months.
Right now socket 939 Athlon 64 chips are around $350 and up.

>
>
> A Barton 2500+ (with maybe an Asus A78NX mobo) is more than enough
> power for me but am I buying into obsolescence?

Why not get an Athlon XP3000+400? It is only around $35 more than the 2500+
and you can get the most out of PC3200 ddr ram.

> Athlon64 is where
> the growth will be and furture residual values

Don't even think about residual value when dealing with computers. The Athlon 64

and K8 based Semprons are the future, but the lower priced Athlon 64 chips
use socket 754, and socket 939 will be gaining tremendously in popularity(and
the socket 754 fading) starting in '05. Socket 939 Athlon 64 chips(the 3500+
is the cheapest) start at around $350.

> will be higher than
> for Barton.
>
> Are there any other advantages of Athlon64 for a user like me other
> than that?

Running 64 bit software and Windows 64 bit. Even 32 bit applications
benefit when run with a 64 bit OS.

>
>
> Are there particular disadvantages ... e.g. more expensive mobos
> for athlon64?

Socket 754 mobos are around $30 more than ones for an Athlon XP.
Socket 939 mobos are even more expensive, but will drop significantly
in price, especially when 90nm Semprons for them appear in '05.

> more expensive memory?

You can use PC3200 ddr ram with both. Depending on your budget,
when you expect to do your next upgrade, and who you might have
in mid to give your pc to when you are ready to upgrade will be deciding
factors. You could buy an Athlon

You might want to buy a new case with a 350 watt or greater power
supply(Antec?) ,an Athlon XP 3000+ 400,a new motherboard, and
PC3200 ddr ram now, with the idea of buying a socket 939 Athlon 64
in 18-24 months(perhaps an Athlon 64 4000+ or faster chip will be cheap then).

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware (More info?)

JK wrote:
> Franklin wrote:
>
>> Hi guys, after several years I have run out of power on my old 700
>> MHz Duron system and now want something new.
>>
>> I don't play games, I am not a power user, I don't do video or audio
>> editing. I just surf and do some small office activities.
>
> An Athlon XP processor would be your best value then.

Wha-aat!?!!!? But why would anybody want to buy a 32-bit CPU now?

Yousuf Khan

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware (More info?)

Yousuf Khan wrote:

> JK wrote:
> > Franklin wrote:
> >
> >> Hi guys, after several years I have run out of power on my old 700
> >> MHz Duron system and now want something new.
> >>
> >> I don't play games, I am not a power user, I don't do video or audio
> >> editing. I just surf and do some small office activities.
> >
> > An Athlon XP processor would be your best value then.
>
> Wha-aat!?!!!? But why would anybody want to buy a 32-bit CPU now?

A 32 bit processor under $120 would be good. My qualm is with high
priced 32 bit processors.

>
>
> Yousuf Khan

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware (More info?)

"Bobby" <bobby@europe.com> wrote:

>I'm in a similar position. Have a 2000XP system right now with 512Mb PC2100
>RAM. Running a bit hot.
>
>Looking for something to multitask faster (I have lots of open programs and
>play music, TV in background).
>
>*Very* tight budget. Have £200 to spend for new set-up (mobo, cpu and ram -
>if needed?). Any ideas?

For a new CPU you'll want new RAM - you really do want to match the
CPU and RAM clock frequencies. For example, for an XP3200 (200MHz fsb)
that means PC3200 (DDR400) RAM. You can run with slower RAM and
upgrade it later, but you wouldn't be getting the full performance the
new CPU is capable of. What's the max processor / RAM speed your
current board supports?

Posting your replies under what you are quoting makes the thread
easier to follow, which will encourage more replies.


Tim
--
Guns Don’t Kill People, Rappers Do.

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware (More info?)

"Yousuf Khan" <bbbl67@ezrs.com> wrote:
>JK wrote:
[snip]
>>
>> An Athlon XP processor would be your best value then.
>
>Wha-aat!?!!!? But why would anybody want to buy a 32-bit CPU now?

Perhaps because there are so few apps which are 64-bit only and we can
expect plenty of 32-bit apps in the future.


Tim
--
Guns Don’t Kill People, Rappers Do.

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware (More info?)

On Tue, 07 Sep 2004 15:41:02 +0100, Franklin wrote:

> Hi guys, after several years I have run out of power on my old 700
> MHz Duron system and now want something new.
>
Unless you just "want it, and the money doesn't matter", there's no reason
you should do anything other than just upgrade your cpu. You can get close
to the speed of a new $400 system with just a cpu upgrade and it will be
many times faster than what you have now. The 2400+ you mentioned sounds
very reasonable to me. I just upgraded the cpu in my brothers old 750
Duron to an underclocked 2100+ running 1300MHz and he's happy with it.
Didn't even want me to speed it up any more, so I lowered vcore to 1.5v to
keep it cool and quiet. Now if he wants more speed, I can almost double it
with his current cpu. It was the cpu listed below.

--
Abit KT7-Raid (KT133) Tbred B core CPU @2400MHz (24x100FSB)
http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.htm

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware (More info?)

adykes@panix.com (Al Dykes) wrote:

>Buy a machine in the "sweet spot" for price performance today, which
>might be a midrange Athlon on a NIC/SOund/Video the motherboard
>machine.

I'd agree with that. Look for price/performance rather than latest
and greatest. The difference in performance between middle and top of
the range will hardly be noticeable in most applications and for the
difference in price you could probably afford to throw the PC away in
a year and buy another, which will undoubtedly be more powerful than
top-of-the-range today.

If you just want something for word processing or to surf the 'Web get
the cheapest you can find; even todays entry level is more than
capable for business applications and Internet use. If you're a bit
more demanding then head for somewhere just above mid-range, where the
best price performance is typically a couple of options beneath the
top level.

>Spend the money you save on the system on a nice big LCD screen,
>and good sound.

Or save the money you'd spend a horrible big LCD screen, get a good
CRT screen and get p*ssed on the spare change.


--
>iv< Paul >iv<

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware (More info?)

On Tue, 07 Sep 2004 18:38:05 +0000, Yousuf Khan wrote:

> JK wrote:
>> Franklin wrote:
>>
>>> Hi guys, after several years I have run out of power on my old 700
>>> MHz Duron system and now want something new.
>>>
>>> I don't play games, I am not a power user, I don't do video or audio
>>> editing. I just surf and do some small office activities.
>>
>> An Athlon XP processor would be your best value then.
>
> Wha-aat!?!!!? But why would anybody want to buy a 32-bit CPU now?
>
Now that's a simple one to answer. He can quadrupple his speed with a
simple $50 cpu upgrade. They're cheap and most people don't need anything
faster. I sure don't. I just want it.:-) My old XP ssytem works just about
as well as my new A64 system for what I do most of the time.

--
Abit KT7-Raid (KT133) Tbred B core CPU @2400MHz (24x100FSB)
http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.htm

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware (More info?)

On Tue, 07 Sep 2004 15:41:02 +0100, Franklin
<franklin_lo@mail.com> wrote:

>Hi guys, after several years I have run out of power on my old 700
>MHz Duron system and now want something new.
>
>I don't play games, I am not a power user, I don't do video or audio
>editing. I just surf and do some small office activities.

Considering that you were getting by with the Duron 700, and
your modest needs, there isn't any good justification for
spending a lot more for the Athlon 64.

>I had thought of upgrading my current system to a T'bred 2400+ but
>the PSU is not big enough and the case is a bit small, so I will
>build a new system instead.

True, anything you buy will use a lot more power, create a
lot more heat.


>
>A Barton 2500+ (with maybe an Asus A78NX mobo) is more than enough
>power for me but am I buying into obsolescence? Athlon64 is where
>the growth will be and furture residual values will be higher than
>for Barton.

Actually it's a tough call there, typically the faster CPUs
for a given platform maintain their value better than the
slower CPUs for the next-faster platform... someday somone
will be looking to upgrade their CPU and will want near the
fastest their platform can support. As for the rest of the
parts, they'll be worth far less than you paid by the time
they show up on your doorstep or when you leave the store
with them.


>Are there any other advantages of Athlon64 for a user like me other
>than that?

No, and you'd be buying the less mature platform,
potentially more issues to deal with.

>
>Are there particular disadvantages ... e.g. more expensive mobos
>for athlon64? more expensive memory?

Yes, more expensive motherboard and heatsink (if you get a
good/quiet heatsink), though memory prices aren't much
different unless you buy into the hype that everyone should
use high-end, premium priced memory. Any decent name-brand
value-grade memory should be fine, will be a loss of a
percent or two of performance, but the cost savings could
easily more than offset that with a faster CPU or more
memory capacity, hard drive, video card, etc.

Best bang for the buck for yor needs would be something
like:

Athlon XP ~ $80
(add a bit for retail Athlon w/heatsink or good 3rd parth
'sink is addt'l $20 somewhere like http://www.svc.com when
on sale (like Thermalright SLK-947).

nForce2 motherboard ~ $65

Sparkle 300W PSU FSP300-60PN ~ $35

2 x 512MB PC3200 ~ $150


You would have somewhat higher performance with the Athlon
64, but for your present needs you won't benefit enough to
notice. As for "future" use, a 2 or more years from now
either will again be slow compared to newest CPUs at that
time, only buy what you need when you need it.