Archived from groups: comp.security.firewalls (More info?)

Has anybody bought a firewall for ?80 that really works

I looking for a firewall that works properly

It stays alive, no outages

Can be configured to block on ip address + port (and remember it)

keeps a log and emails it to a server

remote configure


I have tried an US robotics 8000A,dlink DI 704P and DI 714p+ and and they
all have problems

Archived from groups: comp.security.firewalls (More info?)

In article <newscache$cvbayh$z8h$1@weblab.ucd.ie>, someone@tweety.com
says...
> Has anybody bought a firewall for ?80 that really works
>
> I looking for a firewall that works properly
>
> It stays alive, no outages
>
> Can be configured to block on ip address + port (and remember it)
>
> keeps a log and emails it to a server
>
> remote configure
>
>
> I have tried an US robotics 8000A,dlink DI 704P and DI 714p+ and and they
> all have problems

You need to get a firewall, not a router with some tricks. A real
firewall appliance is going to cost you at least $400 for a cheap SOHO
one that may not have all the features. For about $1500 you can get a
real firewall appliance that does all you ask and more.

If you can buy it at Best Buy (or places like that) it's not a firewall,
it's just a NAT Router and maybe some extras.

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Archived from groups: comp.security.firewalls (More info?)

On Tue, 25 May 2004 09:39:50 +0100, "silvester the putty cat"
<someone@tweety.com> wrote:
>
>I have tried an US robotics 8000A,dlink DI 704P and DI 714p+ and and they
>all have problems
>

Have a look at the ZyXEL ZyWALL 2X. It is a real ICSA-certified
firewall. It can be had for as low $129.95 according to Froogle:

http://froogle.google.com/froogle? [...] =p&tiled=2






--
"A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one
percent of the people may take away the rights of the other
forty-nine." -- Thomas Jefferson

Archived from groups: comp.security.firewalls (More info?)

On Tue, 25 May 2004 10:58:32 GMT, Leythos <void@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
>You need to get a firewall, not a router with some tricks. A real
>firewall appliance is going to cost you at least $400 for a cheap SOHO
>one that may not have all the features. For about $1500 you can get a
>real firewall appliance that does all you ask and more.
>

Have you had the chance to look at the lower end ZyXEL ZyWALL's? They
don't cost you $400 but they are ICSA-certified firewalls. I gave the
original poster a link to froogle showing the ZyWALL 2X costing just a
little bit over a hundred bucks:

http://froogle.google.com/froogle? [...] =p&tiled=2



--
"A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one
percent of the people may take away the rights of the other
forty-nine." -- Thomas Jefferson

Archived from groups: comp.security.firewalls (More info?)

In article <07s6b0hotevinfea06d2b2k7g9ojsb8egb@4ax.com>, root@localhost.
says...
> On Tue, 25 May 2004 10:58:32 GMT, Leythos <void@nowhere.com> wrote:
> >
> >You need to get a firewall, not a router with some tricks. A real
> >firewall appliance is going to cost you at least $400 for a cheap SOHO
> >one that may not have all the features. For about $1500 you can get a
> >real firewall appliance that does all you ask and more.
> >
>
> Have you had the chance to look at the lower end ZyXEL ZyWALL's? They
> don't cost you $400 but they are ICSA-certified firewalls. I gave the
> original poster a link to froogle showing the ZyWALL 2X costing just a
> little bit over a hundred bucks:
>
> http://froogle.google.com/froogle? [...] =p&tiled=2

I'll see if the vendor can send me one to evaluate and let you know what
I think of it.

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Archived from groups: comp.security.firewalls (More info?)

On Tue, 25 May 2004 16:16:29 GMT, Leythos <void@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
>> Have you had the chance to look at the lower end ZyXEL ZyWALL's? They
>> don't cost you $400 but they are ICSA-certified firewalls. I gave the
>> original poster a link to froogle showing the ZyWALL 2X costing just a
>> little bit over a hundred bucks:
>>
>> http://froogle.google.com/froogle? [...] =p&tiled=2
>
>I'll see if the vendor can send me one to evaluate and let you know what
>I think of it.
>

I'm sure we'll all be here dying of anxiety waiting for your opinion.


--
"A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one
percent of the people may take away the rights of the other
forty-nine." -- Thomas Jefferson

Archived from groups: comp.security.firewalls (More info?)

In article <5eu6b09v4bhl5r35riskcs6qpbvtk6f6e7@4ax.com>, root@localhost.
says...
> On Tue, 25 May 2004 16:16:29 GMT, Leythos <void@nowhere.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Have you had the chance to look at the lower end ZyXEL ZyWALL's? They
> >> don't cost you $400 but they are ICSA-certified firewalls. I gave the
> >> original poster a link to froogle showing the ZyWALL 2X costing just a
> >> little bit over a hundred bucks:
> >>
> >> http://froogle.google.com/froogle? [...] =p&tiled=2
> >
> >I'll see if the vendor can send me one to evaluate and let you know what
> >I think of it.
> >
>
> I'm sure we'll all be here dying of anxiety waiting for your opinion.

Nice reply, are you a member of the Troll clan?

I install a lot of firewalls all over the country. In my experience, and
I have none with Zywall, I've not seen a sub $400 firewall that was
really a firewall. Since I post about firewall's to this group I thought
I would give my opinion of it once I review it.

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(Remove 999 to reply to me)

Archived from groups: comp.security.firewalls (More info?)

On Tue, 25 May 2004 17:55:46 GMT, Leythos <void@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
>In article <5eu6b09v4bhl5r35riskcs6qpbvtk6f6e7@4ax.com>, root@localhost.
>says...
>> On Tue, 25 May 2004 16:16:29 GMT, Leythos <void@nowhere.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Have you had the chance to look at the lower end ZyXEL ZyWALL's? They
>> >> don't cost you $400 but they are ICSA-certified firewalls. I gave the
>> >> original poster a link to froogle showing the ZyWALL 2X costing just a
>> >> little bit over a hundred bucks:
>> >>
>> >> http://froogle.google.com/froogle? [...] =p&tiled=2
>> >
>> >I'll see if the vendor can send me one to evaluate and let you know what
>> >I think of it.
>> >
>>
>> I'm sure we'll all be here dying of anxiety waiting for your opinion.
>
>Nice reply, are you a member of the Troll clan?
>
>I install a lot of firewalls all over the country. In my experience, and
>I have none with Zywall, I've not seen a sub $400 firewall that was
>really a firewall. Since I post about firewall's to this group I thought
>I would give my opinion of it once I review it.
>

Well, if you are so well versed on all things "firewall",
ICSA-certified should have told you something.

http://www.icsalabs.com/html/commu [...] ndex.shtml





--
"A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one
percent of the people may take away the rights of the other
forty-nine." -- Thomas Jefferson

Archived from groups: comp.security.firewalls (More info?)

>>Leythos <void@nowhere.com> wrote in
>>news:MPG.1b1d3d07eaa0f3f298a581@news-server.columbus.rr.com:
>>
>>> I'll see if the vendor can send me one to evaluate and
>>> let you know what I think of it.



> In article <5eu6b09v4bhl5r35riskcs6qpbvtk6f6e7@4ax.com>,
> root@localhost. says...
>>
>> I'm sure we'll all be here dying of anxiety
>> waiting for your opinion.


Leythos <void@nowhere.com> wrote in
news:MPG.1b1d54a07ae8148098a582@news-server.columbus.rr.com:
>
> Nice reply, are you a member of the Troll clan?
>
> I install a lot of firewalls all over the country.
> In my experience, and I have none with Zywall, I've
> not seen a sub $400 firewall that was really a firewall.
> Since I post about firewall's to this group I thought
> I would give my opinion of it once I review it.


What is "really a firewall" to you?

How about SmoothWall:

http://www.smoothwall.org/

But, I guess you'd have access a value to the redundant PC to be converted
into a dedicated firewall?

This stuff can get ridiculous, ehh? Sort of like me building an exact
replica of Fort Knox to protect my baseball cards and Atlanta Braves season
pass?

I *am* fraught with curiosity as to how these vendors will respond to your
requests for an evaluation demo. That would be cool if you could pull it
off, because I'd rather invest ~$100 or so into a nice effective small
hardware device than carrying all the overhead of running a PC to serve as
simply a "firewall" device. I don't even know if that would really be
considered "really a firewall" at this juncture? (-;/ (I hear some folks
turn their older PC's into dedicated MP3 Players. About the same principle
as the Fort Knox hyperbole, ehh?)

Cya Later.

Archived from groups: comp.security.firewalls (More info?)

In article <Xns94F48D7B75ABE2468goGOgo2468@216.196.105.138>,
spam.by.the.gram@green.eggs.and.ham says...
> >>Leythos <void@nowhere.com> wrote in
> >>news:MPG.1b1d3d07eaa0f3f298a581@news-server.columbus.rr.com:
> >>
> >>> I'll see if the vendor can send me one to evaluate and
> >>> let you know what I think of it.
>
>
>
> > In article <5eu6b09v4bhl5r35riskcs6qpbvtk6f6e7@4ax.com>,
> > root@localhost. says...
> >>
> >> I'm sure we'll all be here dying of anxiety
> >> waiting for your opinion.
>
>
> Leythos <void@nowhere.com> wrote in
> news:MPG.1b1d54a07ae8148098a582@news-server.columbus.rr.com:
> >
> > Nice reply, are you a member of the Troll clan?
> >
> > I install a lot of firewalls all over the country.
> > In my experience, and I have none with Zywall, I've
> > not seen a sub $400 firewall that was really a firewall.
> > Since I post about firewall's to this group I thought
> > I would give my opinion of it once I review it.
>
>
> What is "really a firewall" to you?

Ha ha ha - I'm almost afraid to answer that one - it usually starts a
frag fest between the router/nat types on the firewall types

> How about SmoothWall:
>
> http://www.smoothwall.org/

For my installations I choose to use an appliance. It makes life easier,
less problematic (less parts to fail), and gives me a direct line to the
vendors support team should a problem crop-up that I've not seen.

> But, I guess you'd have access a value to the redundant PC to be converted
> into a dedicated firewall?
>
> This stuff can get ridiculous, ehh? Sort of like me building an exact
> replica of Fort Knox to protect my baseball cards and Atlanta Braves season
> pass?

Yep, and the problems with my designs are that I only see it as black-
white and nothing in between. I either design a fully protected system
(more than just the appliance) or I don't design it at all.

> I *am* fraught with curiosity as to how these vendors will respond to your
> requests for an evaluation demo. That would be cool if you could pull it
> off, because I'd rather invest ~$100 or so into a nice effective small

I've been able to get demo units for 30 days at no cost many times. We
have a good relationship with many of the resellers for most of the
products on the market. We even get beta appliances from some mfgrs from
time to time.

> hardware device than carrying all the overhead of running a PC to serve as
> simply a "firewall" device. I don't even know if that would really be
> considered "really a firewall" at this juncture? (-;/ (I hear some folks
> turn their older PC's into dedicated MP3 Players. About the same principle
> as the Fort Knox hyperbole, ehh?)

Ha ha ha - I've thought about the MP3 thing - I actually converted all
my CD's and vinyl to MP3 and have them on a set of DVD's... The DVD
player can process the MP3, so I get full optical into the amp.

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(Remove 999 to reply to me)

Archived from groups: comp.security.firewalls (More info?)

Hi,

Leythos <void@nowhere.com> wrote:
> Yep, and the problems with my designs are that I only see it as black-
> white and nothing in between. I either design a fully protected system
> (more than just the appliance) or I don't design it at all.

No, I don't believe you here.
In a commercial or even military environment you do a threat analysis.
Outcome of that is your budget for the security solution...

Greetings,
Jens

Archived from groups: comp.security.firewalls (More info?)

In article <slrncb7dve.l1q.jh@churrasco.bofh.de>, jh@bofh.de says...
> Hi,
>
> Leythos <void@nowhere.com> wrote:
> > Yep, and the problems with my designs are that I only see it as black-
> > white and nothing in between. I either design a fully protected system
> > (more than just the appliance) or I don't design it at all.
>
> No, I don't believe you here.
> In a commercial or even military environment you do a threat analysis.
> Outcome of that is your budget for the security solution...

If I can't design a secure solution it doesn't matter what the cost is.

If I design a secure solution and the customer can't pay for it I don't
install a partial solution. We make our money on reputation, not on
meeting a CFO's cost structure.

As for your threat analysis - what part of what I wrote suggested that I
didn't analyze the threats. It would be kind of stupid to not access a
network and operation for known threats and observe traffic
types/patterns when developing a solution.

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(Remove 999 to reply to me)

Archived from groups: comp.security.firewalls (More info?)

Hi,

Leythos <void@nowhere.com> wrote:
> If I can't design a secure solution it doesn't matter what the cost is.

Right.

> If I design a secure solution and the customer can't pay for it I don't
> install a partial solution. We make our money on reputation, not on
> meeting a CFO's cost structure.

Partly right.

> As for your threat analysis - what part of what I wrote suggested that I
> didn't analyze the threats. It would be kind of stupid to not access a
> network and operation for known threats and observe traffic
> types/patterns when developing a solution.

Your view is a bit too technical.
A threat/risk (perhaps here is the prob... I am not english) has to be valued.
Simple example:

See that hill? If we own that hill, we can conrol the complete valley.
We would stop an entire enemy army and save one of our own, if we get that hill.
But, if we have to "spend" two armies, it's not worth conquering the hill.

Similar reasoning has to be applied in security-solutions.
If the maximum loss is 500$, why bother installing a 501$ security
solution (actullay, already a 200$ security solution might be too big...)

There are even people who define "secure" as: The attacker has a
greater cost, than the protected value is worth.

Greetings,
Jens

Archived from groups: comp.security.firewalls (More info?)

In article <slrncb8blu.l1q.jh@churrasco.bofh.de>, jh@bofh.de says...
> Hi,
>
> Leythos <void@nowhere.com> wrote:
> > If I can't design a secure solution it doesn't matter what the cost is.
>
> Right.
>
> > If I design a secure solution and the customer can't pay for it I don't
> > install a partial solution. We make our money on reputation, not on
> > meeting a CFO's cost structure.
>
> Partly right.
>
> > As for your threat analysis - what part of what I wrote suggested that I
> > didn't analyze the threats. It would be kind of stupid to not access a
> > network and operation for known threats and observe traffic
> > types/patterns when developing a solution.
>
> Your view is a bit too technical.
> A threat/risk (perhaps here is the prob... I am not english) has to be valued.
> Simple example:
>
> See that hill? If we own that hill, we can conrol the complete valley.

If you own the hill you don't always control the valley, in fact, if you
own the hill you have to work hard to just maintain some reasonable
control over the valley. The funny part is that an intruder can sneak
through your valley without you knowing about it until it's too late.
Not every attack is brute force based.

[snip]
> Similar reasoning has to be applied in security-solutions.
> If the maximum loss is 500$, why bother installing a 501$ security
> solution (actullay, already a 200$ security solution might be too big...)
>
> There are even people who define "secure" as: The attacker has a
> greater cost, than the protected value is worth.

I understand the reasoning, but, in most cases I don't think that a
simple firewall is out of the question. The OP asked about a specific
set of features for a firewall, those features are not normally found in
cheap NAT boxes. To the OP, $1500 might be worth the cost of the
protection.

I think that you need to understand that if you've been asked to secure
some object, and your plan is not as cheap as the owner wants, that you
can walk away from the job. If you are paid to secure something and you
don't secure it to the best of your ability and leave holes, that
business can come back and sue you for leaving known gaps in their
security, even if they chose the lesser design after you warned them. If
I can't do the job correctly I don't do it. One other thing - the CFO
isn't likely to understand the cost of security, only the cost of a loss
and until you explain how much loss they can have, they might not have
taken all things into account.

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