All over the internet I am reading 3D hardware manufacturers are moving too fast (for game developers to keep up)... Raw speed of a Radeon 8500 or GeForce 3 card is stunning by any measure - but on use of its full features we are being royally screwed!!!

Guys and Gals once a year video card updates are not too fast, game graphic engine updates are way too slow!!!! Every game developer is just re-creating the wheel way too much and not expecting the game end-users to notice.

Why should we all pay the game industry 20 times for each major company to develop identical game graphic libraries? Not to mention the excessive lead time waits and that this flawed software development model will only make things far worse every year as 3D cards continue to advance!!!! The software development model is just plain wrong and inefficient for the future!!!

You are all using less than 30% of the power of your GeForce or Radeon cards!!!! See the Dinosaur Island Demo from www.crytek.com - that only uses 3 extra features on a GeForce 1 or 2 card and another 2 features I am assured on a GeForce 3 - but it simply blows you away. Its stunning!!!

This is a major problem in a mega industry - it is solvable, it just needs appropriate attention, consistent demand from the gaming community and co-ordination between game developers and hardware manufacturers.

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Really all we are asking for is a scalable, extensible game graphics engine - no more or less. The trouble to date is that Video graphics are all too hard coded and not spilt in to a high level algorithm library and a lower level performance/execution library that scales the games performance and characteristics to yours and any Hardware card. If you can build it for the top of the performance curve - you can certainly scale it for the bottom of the curve to, you just have to plan to do it this way.

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Coordination. The two major video card developers (Nvidia and ATI) should state their yearly intentions of new features to be added to their flagship cards and their expected performance levels. The game engine developers should also state their prioritised list of features to add to their graphics engines each year (e.g John Cormack wants realistic shadows but eschews improved enemy bot A.I.). Folks should then cross check these development plans all tie together well. Then industry could then organise their resources to get there much sooner.

Think about it - they have to do this anyway - eventually - I am just advocating getting it far better organised from the onset.

Carrying this idea forward a common forum or consortium should work collaboratively on how to solve (i.e. define the effective algorithms needed) remaining graphics problems for realistic real-time animation.

The bar on graphics is getting higher each year. GeForce added not just a hell of alot of raw speed, it brought fabulous features that have not nearly been exploited yet.

But the cats out of the bag now!!! Once folk have seen Dinosaur Island or Aquanox I predict the demand will be rampant for Game Developers to stop doing it solo (the old world business model) and to compete more effectively by strategically co-operating!!!

That's my thoughts - once you see what a GF or Radeon card can REALLY do - you'll demand this too!!!

sounds good to me...i am going to download this demo and see what it does on my geforce2 pro...
i have been thinking this for a while, but you stated it very clear, and pointed out many flaws in the game produciton industry, and yes, they definately need to be remedied soon...because people are buying these video cards, and the latest and greatest offerings from amd and intel, but the game can only get faster freamerates, not greater gameplay, and better looking games!
sure, maybe running quake3 arena in 1024*768*32 at 192 frames per second looks good, but that is the quake3 engine, and dont get me wrong, it is a good one, but i know a geforce3 or a redeon8500 can be done wayyy more justice...
either the chip manufacturers need to push the gaming industry to take heed to the new technology, or the gaming industry needs to push the chips manufacturers to give them the info...
either way, i think that if they all work together, then they will be able to produce quite a show for the gaming community...and let people get more for their money when it comes to video cards, and games themselves.
GET YOUR ACT TOGETHER PEOPLE!

-DAvid

-Live, Learn, then build your own computer!-

Thanks

I note the game Aquanox finally sells on 5 Nov 2001. This game is built on the new Krass engine - which I read is fully optimised for the GeForce 3.

I have no idea how a submarine base world game will sell - but God I hope it is a knock out that causes everyone to sit up and notice!!! I hope it raises demand for GeForce cards and games that FULLY support all their capabilities!!!

you know what sucks...last night i downloaded the dinosaurs demo, and i used download accelerator plus, and it fuxed up, and when i tried it again, the site wouldnt load...maybe too many people trying to download...
and then i tried it today...and it is still not loading...
i will try again later tonight...
i was looking at the movie of it tho, and i will tell you that i saw some very impressive things in there....and as far as taking advantage of geforce capabilities, it is doing that...
supposedly, my geforce2 pro can make water and reflect off it, and do a pretty good job, but i have yet to see something actually do it other than the nvidia demos...
but i have never been able to find the nvidia demo that has the reflecing pool...
there is just the video on nvidia's site...
too bad because the other demos are awesome...
maybe now game designers will make real window reflections instead of putting a simple animation on the black polygon...
they need to get their act together otherwise platforms like the xbox and playstation2 will take over the main gaming arena...
i sure hope that doesnt happen...
computers are so much better than consoles, but they are wasted..
it is like when the playstation2 first came out! the game developers hadnt learned how to make games for it, but now the games that are coming out for playstation look amazing...and as far as computer gamers have, not too many games actually look that great...
i mean max payne looks good, but still, things look kinda chunky...you know?

-DAvid

-Live, Learn, then build your own computer!-

The exact url I used is for X-Isle Dinosaur Island is:

http://guru3d.com/cgi-bin/countdown.cgi?xisledi.zip

There a a few mirror sites, take the second mirror site (the link above) cause the first always bombs at 30MB - its a 42MB download.

i think, pb is hardcore gamers want frames & not quality
see doom, halflife,unreal,diablo

what is the interest of those games ?
fight & kill ?

& buy blinded, a GeForce XXL to have 250 frames/sec
although view is well at 30 frames

the GeForce 3 is compatible with directx 8 but developers don't use all capacities of directx 7

but a good game maybe developed in 2 or 3 years

what's aboot unreal ?



EasyInfo
I would like to Invest for my PC !!
ok, buy nothing.

I care about quality. I'm thinking that w/ Gmax, I'll just take a few games, edit the figures and stuff so that they look very real, and good quality. Then, if possible (if Gmax will let me), I may read some stuff about DX8 optimization and the GF3's programmability, and do something there.

What if your life moved.....2 inches to the left?

That's why some people prefer game consoles over PCs. Their games are supposedly more optimized that their PC counterparts.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor

192 frames. What for ?

Quake 3 & geForce3 or Radeon 8500. What for ?

see my first reply...

EasyInfo
I would like to Invest for my PC !!
ok, buy nothing.

i dont know about you, but once you get it above 45-60fps, then you are in playable territory...
i would much rather play a game that looks REALLY GOOD, and only goes at 32fps, than play a game that looks like crap and plays at 200+fps......i dont know about you....but to me, when something looks more realistic, then it is more fun/playable to me.
like when i can tell what i am shooting at, it is easier to play.
heh...but that might just be me.


-DAvid

-Live, Learn, then build your own computer!-

sorry, but you understand my words in reverse thrust


EasyInfo
I would like to Invest for my PC !!
ok, buy nothing.

sorry, i must have..heh.

-DAvid

-Live, Learn, then build your own computer!-

or i don't understand well

Quake3 need 192fps & geForce3 or Radeon 8500


EasyInfo
I would like to Invest for my PC !!
ok, buy nothing.

192fps is child's play. Get a P4 2GHz and you'll be getting 250fps!!

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor

yes & with a 1 Thz, you have 2592 frames/sec

ok but what for ?

to call friends u'r the best ?


EasyInfo
I would like to Invest for my PC !!
ok, buy nothing.

Right on!

What if your life moved.....2 inches to the left?