Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

I have a neighbour 3 houses away (about 150 meters - around 450 feet). Is
there any chance in heck that I will be able to establish an 802.11b
connection with his house without going all crazy with the external
parabolic antennae? Am I dreaming by thinking that maybe a small internal
antenna on his end will be enough to allow him to connect to my AP?

We have a clear line of sight between our houses, and only my external wall
and his external wall between my AP and his computer. Would that help?

Thanks
Tim

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

In article <cm671d$ji1$1@rumours.uwaterloo.ca>,
Tim Haynes <timhaynes@no.spam.please.alumni.uwaterloo.ca> wrote:
:I have a neighbour 3 houses away (about 150 meters - around 450 feet). Is
:there any chance in heck that I will be able to establish an 802.11b
:connection with his house without going all crazy with the external
arabolic antennae? Am I dreaming by thinking that maybe a small internal
:antenna on his end will be enough to allow him to connect to my AP?

Possibly an interior sector antenna would be good enough.


:We have a clear line of sight between our houses, and only my external wall
:and his external wall between my AP and his computer. Would that help?

The exterior walls will noticably attenuate the signal, and thus
will present challenges. The degree of challenge will depend upon the
construction materials, and upon details such as there happening to
be aluminum siding on the walls. The real biggest signal killers
are metal and water; in practice, the water in tree leaves or in
books can be a serious signal damper.
--
Cannot open .signature: Permission denied

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

Tim Haynes wrote:

> I have a neighbour 3 houses away (about 150 meters - around 450 feet). Is
> there any chance in heck that I will be able to establish an 802.11b
> connection with his house without going all crazy with the external
> parabolic antennae? Am I dreaming by thinking that maybe a small internal
> antenna on his end will be enough to allow him to connect to my AP?
>
> We have a clear line of sight between our houses, and only my external wall
> and his external wall between my AP and his computer. Would that help?
>
> Thanks
> Tim

If you have one hell of a good AP/antenna combo beaming signal at him,
his itty-bitty rubber ducky antenna might be okay. If all you have on
the AP is itty-bitty rubber ducky antenna(s) then I'd say plan on
spending a few bucks and an afternoon learning how to get this link to
work. A parabolic antenna would work but would be overkill. A panel or
yagi antenna, maybe a cantenna would be a good starting point. One on
each end to make it work for sure, on one end only might do the trick.
Experimenting is the only way to know.

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

Consider putting the antennas on each end in the windows so each antenna as
a clear line of sight to the other. A USB client on his end might be useful
to allow positioning of his antenna in the window. YOu could also go with a
USB panel/directional antenna on his end - in his window - such as the
Hawking HWU54D (http://www.hawkingtech.com/prodSpec.php?ProdID=208) USB
client which includes a small panel antenna. Approx $60. Or he could use
a USB dongel based tin "cantenna" such as the one I built and used with good
success:
http://members.cox.net/tulsaalston [...] ter%20.htm

I would try the window first; the directional antenna on HIS end 2nd; and a
directional antenna on YOUR end last. That is because using an directional
antenna out your window might limit the coverage of your access point within
your house.

Good luck.

--
Bob Alston

bobalston9 AT aol DOT com
"Rôgêr" <abuse@your.isp.com> wrote in message
news:ufadneCoCOcLLhvcRVn-pw@pghconnect.com...
> Tim Haynes wrote:
>
>> I have a neighbour 3 houses away (about 150 meters - around 450 feet).
>> Is
>> there any chance in heck that I will be able to establish an 802.11b
>> connection with his house without going all crazy with the external
>> parabolic antennae? Am I dreaming by thinking that maybe a small
>> internal
>> antenna on his end will be enough to allow him to connect to my AP?
>>
>> We have a clear line of sight between our houses, and only my external
>> wall
>> and his external wall between my AP and his computer. Would that help?
>>
>> Thanks
>> Tim
>
> If you have one hell of a good AP/antenna combo beaming signal at him, his
> itty-bitty rubber ducky antenna might be okay. If all you have on the AP
> is itty-bitty rubber ducky antenna(s) then I'd say plan on spending a few
> bucks and an afternoon learning how to get this link to work. A parabolic
> antenna would work but would be overkill. A panel or yagi antenna, maybe a
> cantenna would be a good starting point. One on each end to make it work
> for sure, on one end only might do the trick. Experimenting is the only
> way to know.


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

"Walter Roberson" <roberson@ibd.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca> wrote in message
news:cm6ate$85h$1@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca...
> In article <cm671d$ji1$1@rumours.uwaterloo.ca>,
> Tim Haynes <timhaynes@no.spam.please.alumni.uwaterloo.ca> wrote:
> :I have a neighbour 3 houses away (about 150 meters - around 450 feet).
Is
> :there any chance in heck that I will be able to establish an 802.11b
> :connection with his house without going all crazy with the external
> arabolic antennae? Am I dreaming by thinking that maybe a small
internal
> :antenna on his end will be enough to allow him to connect to my AP?
>
> Possibly an interior sector antenna would be good enough.
>
>
> :We have a clear line of sight between our houses, and only my external
wall
> :and his external wall between my AP and his computer. Would that help?
>
> The exterior walls will noticably attenuate the signal, and thus
> will present challenges. The degree of challenge will depend upon the
> construction materials, and upon details such as there happening to
> be aluminum siding on the walls. The real biggest signal killers
> are metal and water; in practice, the water in tree leaves or in
> books can be a serious signal damper.

Thanks for the advice, Walter! Luckily, we both have wood frame houses with
vinyl siding (albeit aluminum frames around our windows). Looks like I may
be able to get away with some small internal antennae (and possibly only
one). That's great to know - thanks!!

Tim

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

Thanks for the great advice. I love the USB dongle based cantenna
solution - cheap and (relatively) easy to do. Since it's so cheap, I will
probably try that first. The pictures that I see of how to mount a normal
probe into the can shows the probe running from the side of the can to the
centre of the can (i.e. piercing the side of the can and not turning any
corners). Is that how your dongle is place? Just running from the center
of the can to the side of the can?

Thanks
Tim

"Bob Alston" <bobalston9NOSPAM@aol.com> wrote in message
news:0Tyhd.31994$G15.1947@fed1read03...
> Consider putting the antennas on each end in the windows so each antenna
as
> a clear line of sight to the other. A USB client on his end might be
useful
> to allow positioning of his antenna in the window. YOu could also go with
a
> USB panel/directional antenna on his end - in his window - such as the
> Hawking HWU54D (http://www.hawkingtech.com/prodSpec.php?ProdID=208) USB
> client which includes a small panel antenna. Approx $60. Or he could
use
> a USB dongel based tin "cantenna" such as the one I built and used with
good
> success:
>
http://members.cox.net/tulsaalston [...] ter%20.htm
>
> I would try the window first; the directional antenna on HIS end 2nd; and
a
> directional antenna on YOUR end last. That is because using an
directional
> antenna out your window might limit the coverage of your access point
within
> your house.
>
> Good luck.
>
> --
> Bob Alston
>
> bobalston9 AT aol DOT com
> "Rôgêr" <abuse@your.isp.com> wrote in message
> news:ufadneCoCOcLLhvcRVn-pw@pghconnect.com...
> > Tim Haynes wrote:
> >
> >> I have a neighbour 3 houses away (about 150 meters - around 450 feet).
> >> Is
> >> there any chance in heck that I will be able to establish an 802.11b
> >> connection with his house without going all crazy with the external
> >> parabolic antennae? Am I dreaming by thinking that maybe a small
> >> internal
> >> antenna on his end will be enough to allow him to connect to my AP?
> >>
> >> We have a clear line of sight between our houses, and only my external
> >> wall
> >> and his external wall between my AP and his computer. Would that help?
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >> Tim
> >
> > If you have one hell of a good AP/antenna combo beaming signal at him,
his
> > itty-bitty rubber ducky antenna might be okay. If all you have on the AP
> > is itty-bitty rubber ducky antenna(s) then I'd say plan on spending a
few
> > bucks and an afternoon learning how to get this link to work. A
parabolic
> > antenna would work but would be overkill. A panel or yagi antenna, maybe
a
> > cantenna would be a good starting point. One on each end to make it work
> > for sure, on one end only might do the trick. Experimenting is the only
> > way to know.
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.786 / Virus Database: 532 - Release Date: 10/29/2004
>
>

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

Do some internet shopping for D-Link DWL-122 USB dongel. YOu should be able
to find one for about $10.00 If you want to use "G", I saw one in the
Sunday paper for about $20 after rebates.

In my tin cantenna, I calculated the distance from the bottom/closed end of
the can that the dongel should be placed. Used a drill and drilled the side
of the can. Two holes, then bent the tin between the holes. Need a
rectangular hole the size of the USB connecter in the dongle. Then I insert
the dongel from the inside of the can, thru the hole, with the label edge of
the dongle facing toward the open end of the can. My hole is such that only
the USB adapter part extends thru the hole in the side of the can.

Hope this additional description helps.

Again, putting whatever antenna you use in the window, avoiding the exterior
wall, should help with reception.

--
Bob Alston

bobalston9 AT aol DOT com
"Tim Haynes" <timhaynes@no.spam.please.alumni.uwaterloo.ca> wrote in message
news:cm889l$qfs$1@rumours.uwaterloo.ca...
>
> Thanks for the great advice. I love the USB dongle based cantenna
> solution - cheap and (relatively) easy to do. Since it's so cheap, I will
> probably try that first. The pictures that I see of how to mount a normal
> probe into the can shows the probe running from the side of the can to the
> centre of the can (i.e. piercing the side of the can and not turning any
> corners). Is that how your dongle is place? Just running from the center
> of the can to the side of the can?
>
> Thanks
> Tim
>
> "Bob Alston" <bobalston9NOSPAM@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:0Tyhd.31994$G15.1947@fed1read03...
>> Consider putting the antennas on each end in the windows so each antenna
> as
>> a clear line of sight to the other. A USB client on his end might be
> useful
>> to allow positioning of his antenna in the window. YOu could also go
>> with
> a
>> USB panel/directional antenna on his end - in his window - such as the
>> Hawking HWU54D (http://www.hawkingtech.com/prodSpec.php?ProdID=208) USB
>> client which includes a small panel antenna. Approx $60. Or he could
> use
>> a USB dongel based tin "cantenna" such as the one I built and used with
> good
>> success:
>>
> http://members.cox.net/tulsaalston [...] ter%20.htm
>>
>> I would try the window first; the directional antenna on HIS end 2nd; and
> a
>> directional antenna on YOUR end last. That is because using an
> directional
>> antenna out your window might limit the coverage of your access point
> within
>> your house.
>>
>> Good luck.
>>
>> --
>> Bob Alston
>>
>> bobalston9 AT aol DOT com
>> "Rôgêr" <abuse@your.isp.com> wrote in message
>> news:ufadneCoCOcLLhvcRVn-pw@pghconnect.com...
>> > Tim Haynes wrote:
>> >
>> >> I have a neighbour 3 houses away (about 150 meters - around 450 feet).
>> >> Is
>> >> there any chance in heck that I will be able to establish an 802.11b
>> >> connection with his house without going all crazy with the external
>> >> parabolic antennae? Am I dreaming by thinking that maybe a small
>> >> internal
>> >> antenna on his end will be enough to allow him to connect to my AP?
>> >>
>> >> We have a clear line of sight between our houses, and only my external
>> >> wall
>> >> and his external wall between my AP and his computer. Would that
>> >> help?
>> >>
>> >> Thanks
>> >> Tim
>> >
>> > If you have one hell of a good AP/antenna combo beaming signal at him,
> his
>> > itty-bitty rubber ducky antenna might be okay. If all you have on the
>> > AP
>> > is itty-bitty rubber ducky antenna(s) then I'd say plan on spending a
> few
>> > bucks and an afternoon learning how to get this link to work. A
> parabolic
>> > antenna would work but would be overkill. A panel or yagi antenna,
>> > maybe
> a
>> > cantenna would be a good starting point. One on each end to make it
>> > work
>> > for sure, on one end only might do the trick. Experimenting is the only
>> > way to know.
>>
>>
>> ---
>> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
>> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
>> Version: 6.0.786 / Virus Database: 532 - Release Date: 10/29/2004
>>
>>
>
>


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.786 / Virus Database: 532 - Release Date: 10/29/2004

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

On Tue, 2 Nov 2004 09:22:56 -0500, "Tim Haynes"
<timhaynes@no.spam.please.alumni.uwaterloo.ca> wrote:

>Thanks for the advice, Walter! Luckily, we both have wood frame houses with
>vinyl siding (albeit aluminum frames around our windows). Looks like I may
>be able to get away with some small internal antennae (and possibly only
>one). That's great to know - thanks!!

Careful. You may have aluminium foil back insulation in the walls.
The foil will block any attempt to go through the walls. I would use
an outside antenna.


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 AE6KS 831-336-2558

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

Bob Alston <bobalston9NOSPAM@aol.com> wrote:
> In my tin cantenna, I calculated the distance from the bottom/closed end of
> the can that the dongel should be placed. Used a drill and drilled the side
> of the can. Two holes, then bent the tin between the holes. Need a
> rectangular hole the size of the USB connecter in the dongle. Then I insert
> the dongel from the inside of the can, thru the hole, with the label edge of
> the dongle facing toward the open end of the can. My hole is such that only
> the USB adapter part extends thru the hole in the side of the can.

I built mine with two coffee cans soldered together. Bob said that one can
was better than two for him.
http://www.rahul.net/dold/clarence [...] 00x600.jpg
The antenna element is near the top of the dongle, perpendicular to the
body of the dongle, so it winds up being nearly centered in the can.
http://www.rahul.net/dold/clarence [...] l_View.gif

I had used the calculations on
http://www.turnpoint.net/wireless/cantennahowto.html to determine that the
bare reflector for a cantenna of 4" should be at 1.72" from the bottom of
the can. That's where Bob and I each made our holes in the can.

---
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8-122.5

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

"Jeff Liebermann" <jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote in message
news:teefo0lqmn84gtbucqves4mnoetlp9l2an@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 2 Nov 2004 09:22:56 -0500, "Tim Haynes"
> <timhaynes@no.spam.please.alumni.uwaterloo.ca> wrote:
>
> >Thanks for the advice, Walter! Luckily, we both have wood frame houses
with
> >vinyl siding (albeit aluminum frames around our windows). Looks like I
may
> >be able to get away with some small internal antennae (and possibly only
> >one). That's great to know - thanks!!
>
> Careful. You may have aluminium foil back insulation in the walls.
> The foil will block any attempt to go through the walls. I would use
> an outside antenna.

Ah... good point. I know that I have foil backed insulation just beneath
the vinyl siding (watched them put it on, effectively making my house a big
faraday cage... seemed smart at the time!!!).

If I mount an antenna outside (may not need to, as I have a nearby window
that may have a line of sight to my neighbour), do you think I'll still get
decent reception inside my own house? Given that my vinyl siding has
foil-backed insultion?

Thanks!
Tim

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

<dold@XReXXIsXmy.usenet.us.com> wrote in message
news:cm8evl$ubp$1@blue.rahul.net...
> Bob Alston <bobalston9NOSPAM@aol.com> wrote:
> > In my tin cantenna, I calculated the distance from the bottom/closed end
of
> > the can that the dongel should be placed. Used a drill and drilled the
side
> > of the can. Two holes, then bent the tin between the holes. Need a
> > rectangular hole the size of the USB connecter in the dongle. Then I
insert
> > the dongel from the inside of the can, thru the hole, with the label
edge of
> > the dongle facing toward the open end of the can. My hole is such that
only
> > the USB adapter part extends thru the hole in the side of the can.
>
> I built mine with two coffee cans soldered together. Bob said that one
can
> was better than two for him.
> http://www.rahul.net/dold/clarence [...] 00x600.jpg
> The antenna element is near the top of the dongle, perpendicular to the
> body of the dongle, so it winds up being nearly centered in the can.
> http://www.rahul.net/dold/clarence [...] l_View.gif
>
> I had used the calculations on
> http://www.turnpoint.net/wireless/cantennahowto.html to determine that the
> bare reflector for a cantenna of 4" should be at 1.72" from the bottom of
> the can. That's where Bob and I each made our holes in the can.

Great - thanks for the pictures! That's how I imagined it, but wasn't
totally sure. This looks like a really fun project!

Thanks again
Tim

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

On Tue, 2 Nov 2004 12:22:54 -0500, "Tim Haynes"
<timhaynes@no.spam.please.alumni.uwaterloo.ca> wrote:

>If I mount an antenna outside (may not need to, as I have a nearby window
>that may have a line of sight to my neighbour), do you think I'll still get
>decent reception inside my own house? Given that my vinyl siding has
>foil-backed insultion?

No. You're not going to go through the foil in either direction, in
or out of the house. If your access point has two antennas for
diversity reception, you might wanna leave one with the stock indoor
antenna for inside coverages. Then attach a coax cable and outside
antenna to the other antenna connector. That will work, but has one
big drawback. File transfers between computahs connected to opposite
antennas will go rather slowly. Also, considering the cost of
antennas, coax, waterproof feed thrus, and pigtails, you may wanna
consider using two radios. One for inside, one for outside.


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 AE6KS 831-336-2558

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

"Jeff Liebermann" <jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote in message
news:g4jfo0di87c6oo4vndpiq34ofmosefr5qg@4ax.com..