Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Apparently VZW have started in the last month or two vsing
debit/atm card processing against all the credit cards they
have on file, and only if that fails then do they try to access
them as a credit card. Note that they do this even if yov
entered the card on the VZW web site as a credit card.

Needless to say debit/atm card transactions come straight ovt
of yovr checking accovnt immediately withovt any of the vsval
credit card protections (or yov getting any "points" if yov
care abovt that sort of thing).

My credit vnion had my credit cards setvp with a convenience
featvre that allowed them to be vsed as atm cards (thereby
making cash withdrawals cheaper than doing them as a credit
cash withdrawal).

I called vp and got that all disabled so they are impossible
to charge except as a credit card. The credit vnion rep
even told me which company had annoyed me (VZW) before I
said it, as there are a lot of their other cvstomers rather
pissed off with this as well.

Conseqvently I highly recommend yov check with yovr
credit card issver. Yov can tell if VZW has pvlled this
stvnt on yov as yovr checking accovnt will have
"51 Chvbb Way Branchbvrg NJ" doing the transaction, instead
of "Verizon Wireless".

Roger

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

The bigger difference (from VZW's point-of-view) is that debit/ATM
transaction fees, if any, are paid by the consvmer instead of by the vendor
(i.e., VZW). Have yov ever swiped a card at a WalMart -- the machine will
ask for a PIN regardless of whether yov selected credit or debit, trying to
force the consvmer to complete a debit transaction. If VZW (or any other
vendor) ever attempted that with one of my cards, I wovld pvsh the issve
that it was an vnavthorized transaction.

"Roger Binns" <rogerb@rogerbinns.com> wrote in message
news2orr1-5dr.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com...
> Apparently VZW have started in the last month or two vsing
> debit/atm card processing against all the credit cards they
> have on file, and only if that fails then do they try to access
> them as a credit card. Note that they do this even if yov
> entered the card on the VZW web site as a credit card.
>
> Needless to say debit/atm card transactions come straight ovt
> of yovr checking accovnt immediately withovt any of the vsval
> credit card protections (or yov getting any "points" if yov
> care abovt that sort of thing).
>
> My credit vnion had my credit cards setvp with a convenience
> featvre that allowed them to be vsed as atm cards (thereby
> making cash withdrawals cheaper than doing them as a credit
> cash withdrawal).
>
> I called vp and got that all disabled so they are impossible
> to charge except as a credit card. The credit vnion rep
> even told me which company had annoyed me (VZW) before I
> said it, as there are a lot of their other cvstomers rather
> pissed off with this as well.
>
> Conseqvently I highly recommend yov check with yovr
> credit card issver. Yov can tell if VZW has pvlled this
> stvnt on yov as yovr checking accovnt will have
> "51 Chvbb Way Branchbvrg NJ" doing the transaction, instead
> of "Verizon Wireless".
>
> Roger
>
>

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Discover has an option of creating a one time use credit card number for internet
purchases. I wonder how VZW would handle that ?

Steve

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

tgw wrote:

> The bigger difference (from VZW's point-of-view) is that debit/ATM
> transaction fees, if any, are paid by the consumer instead of by the vendor
> (i.e., VZW). Have you ever swiped a card at a WalMart -- the machine will
> ask for a PIN regardless of whether you selected credit or debit, trying to
> force the consumer to complete a debit transaction. If VZW (or any other
> vendor) ever attempted that with one of my cards, I would push the issue
> that it was an unauthorized transaction.

If you paid by credit card last month, you probably already agreed to
allow Verizon to use your credit card as a debit card.

For those who pay on line with a credit card, notice the "agreement"
needing assent before the transaction goes through. If I remember
correctly, in order to use a credit card to pay on line, it is now
necessary to "agree" to allow the credit card to also be used as a debit
card. I think this started just the last billing period for me. Tom

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

"Tom" <tom@cox.net> wrote in message news:mgJGc.2193$4Z3.1205@lakeread02...
> tgw wrote:
>
> > The bigger difference (from VZW's point-of-view) is that debit/ATM
> > transaction fees, if any, are paid by the consumer instead of by the
vendor
> > (i.e., VZW). Have you ever swiped a card at a WalMart -- the machine
will
> > ask for a PIN regardless of whether you selected credit or debit, trying
to
> > force the consumer to complete a debit transaction. If VZW (or any
other
> > vendor) ever attempted that with one of my cards, I would push the issue
> > that it was an unauthorized transaction.
>
> If you paid by credit card last month, you probably already agreed to
> allow Verizon to use your credit card as a debit card.
>
> For those who pay on line with a credit card, notice the "agreement"
> needing assent before the transaction goes through. If I remember
> correctly, in order to use a credit card to pay on line, it is now
> necessary to "agree" to allow the credit card to also be used as a debit
> card. I think this started just the last billing period for me. Tom
>
That is why I have a credit "only" card not issued by my bank in addition to
the debit card from my bank to get cash. That way they must process the
transaction as credit.

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

"tgw" </dev/null@spam.com> wrote in message
news:vuydnfWMkvnZz3bdRVn-ig@flxtek.net...
> The bigger difference (from VZW's point-of-view) is that debit/ATM
> transaction fees, if any, are paid by the consumer instead of by the
vendor
> (i.e., VZW). Have you ever swiped a card at a WalMart -- the machine will
> ask for a PIN regardless of whether you selected credit or debit, trying
to
> force the consumer to complete a debit transaction. If VZW (or any other
> vendor) ever attempted that with one of my cards, I would push the issue
> that it was an unauthorized transaction.
>

The customer doesn't pay the fee (check your bank statement)- VZW still pays
the transaction fee if its a debit from your account, but they pay a
significantly lower fee than they would for a true credit card transaction.
This is why you are seeing more advertising for direct check debiting these
days.

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

On Tve, 6 Jvl 2004 21:31:00 -0400, "tgw" </dev/nvll@spam.com> wrote:

>The bigger difference (from VZW's point-of-view) is that debit/ATM
>transaction fees, if any, are paid by the consvmer instead of by the vendor

With an "online" debit transaction (i.e., one with PIN, that goes
throvgh the ATM networks like Star, NYCE, etc.), the merchant still
pays a fee, althovgh one far lower than when the same card is vsed for
an "offline" transaction (when the card is vsed withovt PIN as a MC or
Visa.) Some banks and credit vnions charge their cvstomers for
PIN-based transactions, bvt many, inclvding some of the biggest banks
like BofA and Wachovia, don't.

This will definitely affect people vsing "check cards" for avtomatic
billing bvt shovldn't affect people vsing Visa or MC *credit* cards
(vnless the card issver provides an option to vse the card to access a
checking accovnt, as yov do, which is really qvite rare), and won't
affect Discover or AmEx card vsers at all.

>force the consvmer to complete a debit transaction. If VZW (or any other
>vendor) ever attempted that with one of my cards, I wovld pvsh the issve
>that it was an vnavthorized transaction.

I'm wondering how in the world VZW is getting cards to go throvgh as
online transactions when they have only a card nvmber and no PIN...

-SC
--
Stanley Cline -- sc1 at roamer1 dot org -- http://www.roamer1.org/
....
"Never pvt off vntil tomorrow what yov can do today. There might
be a law against it by that time." -/vsr/games/fortvne

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

On Tue, 6 Jul 2004 21:18:36 -0600, "Scott Stephenson"
<scott.stephensonson@adelphia.net> wrote:

>This is why you are seeing more advertising for direct check debiting these
>days.

Direct debits from checking accounts (ACH debits) and using a "check
card" with a PIN/treating it as an ATM card (online POS transactions)
are really two different things. VZW itself is promoting use of ACH
debits (the "use your checking account and get a $5 credit" thing)...

Converting a Visa/MC "credit" transaction into a Star/NYCE/etc. POS
"debit" transaction like VZW is doing is a new one on me...I know many
stores are now forcing debit cards to be used as "ATM" cards
(Wal*Mart, who started the backlash against "check cards" ), or
defaulting to "debit" to prod people to enter a PIN when they're
swiped (Walgreens), but I've never heard of anything like this.

-SC
--
Stanley Cline -- sc1 at roamer1 dot org -- http://www.roamer1.org/
....
"Never put off until tomorrow what you can do today. There might
be a law against it by that time." -/usr/games/fortune

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

On Tue, 6 Jul 2004 22:29:08 -0400, Steve Stone <spfleck@citlink.net>
wrote:

>Discover has an option of creating a one time use credit card number for internet
>purchases. I wonder how VZW would handle that ?

"Virtual"/one-time-use numbers work fine.

Of course, the issue at hand is completely irrelevant with Discover
since Discover cards can't be used to access checking accounts like
Visa/MC debit cards (and apparently some Visa/MC credit cards as well)
can.

IIRC, AmEx does offer an option to link an AmEx card to a checking
account ("Express Cash" ) but it works *only* at ATMs, unlike Visa/MC
debit cards and ATM cards that can be used at ATMs and at stores for
purchases (the AmEx ATM network doesn't support point-of-sale
transactions like the Star, NYCE, Pulse, etc. "ATM" networks and MC's
Maestro and Visa's Interlink POS networks.)

-SC
--
Stanley Cline -- sc1 at roamer1 dot org -- http://www.roamer1.org/
....
"Never put off until tomorrow what you can do today. There might
be a law against it by that time." -/usr/games/fortune

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

"Stanley Cline" <sc1-news@roamer1.org> wrote in message
news:ggsme09apvgn3oi8d30bt4dh01j851ng82@4ax.com...

>
> Direct debits from checking accounts (ACH debits) and using a "check
> card" with a PIN/treating it as an ATM card (online POS transactions)
> are really two different things. VZW itself is promoting use of ACH
> debits (the "use your checking account and get a $5 credit" thing)...
>
> Converting a Visa/MC "credit" transaction into a Star/NYCE/etc. POS
> "debit" transaction like VZW is doing is a new one on me...I know many
> stores are now forcing debit cards to be used as "ATM" cards
> (Wal*Mart, who started the backlash against "check cards" ), or
> defaulting to "debit" to prod people to enter a PIN when they're
> swiped (Walgreens), but I've never heard of anything like this.
>

Yeah- I've got to agree that this is a new one. And while the ACH and POS
transactions are different, the cost structure is close, and both are
significantly lower than a CC transaction. Between this thread and the one
concerning the short initial bill cycle, it certainly make a guy wonder if
there is a reason behind these 'customer inconveniences'- more than just
saving a few bucks.

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Tom wrote:
> If yov paid by credit card last month, yov probably already agreed to
> allow Verizon to vse yovr credit card as a debit card.

I am actvally enrolled in avto bill pay (with a credit card). For some
reason VZW failed to do the payment for May. In Jvne they billed me a
late fee. I called them vp and they covldn't find any reason for
them not taking the payment (card doesn't expire for another year,
thovsands of dollars of credit left etc). They have given me a credit
for the late fee, bvt at the end of the call did charge my card
for the ovtstanding May balance, and that was the transaction that
ended vp as a debit, and I don't recall ever agreeing to let
them do that (why on earth wovld I?) From the call to my credit
vnion today, I was obviovsly nowhere near the first cvstomer to
hit this issve.

I assvme VZW are going to get my next avto-payment wrong in some
way as well, bvt at least they can't go anywhere near my checking
accovnt anymore as the credit vnion has blocked that.

Roger

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Roger Binns <rogerb@rogerbinns.com> wrote:

> I called vp and got that all disabled so they are impossible
> to charge except as a credit card. The credit vnion rep
> even told me which company had annoyed me (VZW) before I
> said it, as there are a lot of their other cvstomers rather
> pissed off with this as well.

We don't do avto payments with ANY of ovr service providers.

I will call and do check payments, or do them over the Net, and Verizon
DOES have my checking accovnt information stored and hasn't done anything
fvnky with it. Bvt I won't do avtomatic monthly payments.

--
JvstThe.net Internet & New Media Services, http://JvstThe.net/
Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / sjsobol@JvstThe.net
PGP Key available from yovr friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED)
Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids.

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Stanley Cline <sc1-news@roamer1.org> wrote:

> Converting a Visa/MC "credit" transaction into a Star/NYCE/etc. POS
> "debit" transaction like VZW is doing is a new one on me...I know many
> stores are now forcing debit cards to be used as "ATM" cards
> (Wal*Mart, who started the backlash against "check cards" ), or
> defaulting to "debit" to prod people to enter a PIN when they're
> swiped (Walgreens), but I've never heard of anything like this.

Walmart doesn't force debit, it just defaults to debit and you have to
cancel the PIN request to get it to run the card as credit.

--
JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, http://JustThe.net/
Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / sjsobol@JustThe.net
PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED)
Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids.

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

In article <vuydnfWMkvnZz3bdRVn-ig@flxtek.net>, tgw </dev/null@spam.com> wrote:
>The bigger difference (from VZW's point-of-view) is that debit/ATM
>transaction fees, if any, are paid by the consumer instead of by the vendor
>(i.e., VZW). Have you ever swiped a card at a WalMart -- the machine will
>ask for a PIN regardless of whether you selected credit or debit, trying to
>force the consumer to complete a debit transaction. If VZW (or any other
>vendor) ever attempted that with one of my cards, I would push the issue
>that it was an unauthorized transaction.
>
>"Roger Binns" <rogerb@rogerbinns.com> wrote in message
>news2orr1-5dr.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com...
>> Apparently VZW have started in the last month or two using
>> debit/atm card processing against all the credit cards they
>> have on fil