Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Two of my relatives just signed up for Verizon Wireless' "America's
Choice" plan.

On the surface it sounds good, 400 shared peak time minutes
per-month, unlimited nights and weekends usage, no long distance
charges and additional benefits.

They have been with Verizon Wireless for about 10 days and the 1st
bill came, with some surprises:

1/ TRICK

Their "month" did not start when the phones were activated,
SURPRISE ! -- it started 4 days later. We learned that your "month"
can start anytime - the dealer told us today it is sort of random,
3-days after you sign up, or 10 days or 15 days.

The problem for them was that the first 3 days were treated as a
pro-rated partial month. They got screwed because they used their
beautiful new cell phones a lot those 1st 3 days thinking they had 400
peak minutes to spread over 30 or 31 days, but Verizon Wireless
pro-rated the 3 days at 13 peak minutes each which, in their newbie
enthusiasm, they had exceeded - resulting in a 3-day [ at 45-cents per
minute ] charge of around $7 for "excess minutes".

2/ SCAM [ adding insult to injury ]

The scam is the use of 13 minutes per day for the pro-rated period.
Apparently they get that figure by dividing 4800 minutes per year by
365 = 13.15 minutes per day.

The accurate number should take into account that weekends are free.
2x52 = 104 free days. 365-104 = 261 days to which peak minutes apply.
4800/261 = 18.39 minutes allowance per peak day.

3/ $40 billing computer "mistake"

They advertise: "One- or Two-year agreement required per line. $35
activation fee per line on one-year agreements, and $15 activation fee
per line on two-year agreements."

My relatives signed up for 2-years, confirmed by Verizon's billing
department and the dealer today. But the bill shows two $35
activation fees, not two $15 activation fees. One can assume that
their billing computer makes this "mistake" for everyone.

Comments welcome, especially about any tricks we may ahve missed.

QE in NJ

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

QuienEs wrote:
>
> Two of my relatives just signed up for Verizon Wireless' "America's
> Choice" plan.
>
> <snip>

Have you asked Verizon for a "corrected" bill?

Notan

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Did they sign up at a VZW store or an agent?
The stores are usually very thorough to point out the
prorating to a billing cycle. Let me guess -- billing
cycle is the 25th of each month? Not very random.

This is so commonly misunderstood that customer
service usually has the overage charges refunded before
you finish explaining what happened. Same will apply
if you change plans in the middle of a billing cycle but
they are not so apt to give you the auto refund then.

Your idea of not counting holidays is interesting.
Plans are monthly. Contracts are for years. When
prorating they figure by the month. Unused minutes
do not carry over from month to month and not all
months have holidays in them. How would you
resolve that?

The activation fee was probably the mistake of the
sales person entering the contracts.

Here is a trick it sounds like you missed:
Try calling customer service and explain what
happened and ask what they can do for you.

-Quick

QuienEs wrote:
> Two of my relatives just signed up for Verizon Wireless' "America's
> Choice" plan.
>
> On the surface it sounds good, 400 shared peak time minutes
> per-month, unlimited nights and weekends usage, no long distance
> charges and additional benefits.
>
> They have been with Verizon Wireless for about 10 days and the 1st
> bill came, with some surprises:
>
> 1/ TRICK
>
> Their "month" did not start when the phones were activated,
> SURPRISE ! -- it started 4 days later. We learned that your "month"
> can start anytime - the dealer told us today it is sort of random,
> 3-days after you sign up, or 10 days or 15 days.
>
> The problem for them was that the first 3 days were treated as a
> pro-rated partial month. They got screwed because they used their
> beautiful new cell phones a lot those 1st 3 days thinking they had 400
> peak minutes to spread over 30 or 31 days, but Verizon Wireless
> pro-rated the 3 days at 13 peak minutes each which, in their newbie
> enthusiasm, they had exceeded - resulting in a 3-day [ at 45-cents per
> minute ] charge of around $7 for "excess minutes".
>
> 2/ SCAM [ adding insult to injury ]
>
> The scam is the use of 13 minutes per day for the pro-rated period.
> Apparently they get that figure by dividing 4800 minutes per year by
> 365 = 13.15 minutes per day.
>
> The accurate number should take into account that weekends are free.
> 2x52 = 104 free days. 365-104 = 261 days to which peak minutes apply.
> 4800/261 = 18.39 minutes allowance per peak day.
>
> 3/ $40 billing computer "mistake"
>
> They advertise: "One- or Two-year agreement required per line. $35
> activation fee per line on one-year agreements, and $15 activation fee
> per line on two-year agreements."
>
> My relatives signed up for 2-years, confirmed by Verizon's billing
> department and the dealer today. But the bill shows two $35
> activation fees, not two $15 activation fees. One can assume that
> their billing computer makes this "mistake" for everyone.
>
> Comments welcome, especially about any tricks we may ahve missed.
>
> QE in NJ

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

>
> They advertise: "One- or Two-year agreement required per line. $35
> activation fee per line on one-year agreements, and $15 activation fee
> per line on two-year agreements."
>
> My relatives signed up for 2-years, confirmed by Verizon's billing
> department and the dealer today. But the bill shows two $35
> activation fees, not two $15 activation fees. One can assume that
> their for everyone.


I had the same billing computer mistake, It is how the Executives at VZW
make thier xmas bonuses. ;-)


--
peter_may_day

To email me, remove underwear, and insert, my name
my_name@yahoounderwear.com

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/who-called-me/
Directory of unlisted phone numbers

--

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Those negotiations will take place tomorrow or Friday, must be done
by my relatives, you know the drill - they want to be talking to
their subscriber.

What I can promise is to post a follow-up - after the negotiations and
when I have time.

The purpose of my OP was to divulge the scam and trick to the readers
of this NG, and see if we missed anything.

Why am I involved you might ask ? Because I told them that Verizon
was worth switching to, from ATT. So, I caught some flack. I'm
still on ATT because VZW doesn't have good signal strength in my
wife's work building.

QE
===========

On Thu, 01 Jul 2004 00:51:51 GMT, Notan <notan@ddress.com> wrote:

|QuienEs wrote:
|>
|> Two of my relatives just signed up for Verizon Wireless' "America's
|> Choice" plan.
|>
|> <snip>
|
|Have you asked Verizon for a "corrected" bill?
|
|Notan

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

On Wed, 30 Jun 2004 18:01:53 -0700, "Quick" <dhorwitz@NOSPAMcisco.com>
wrote:

|Did they sign up at a VZW store or an agent?
|The stores are usually very thorough to point out the
|prorating to a billing cycle. Let me guess -- billing
|cycle is the 25th of each month? Not very random.

As I recall, it starts on the 14th. As to the rest of your post, it
looks like you cut-and-pasted in some "boilerplate" - I did not
mention holidays. Nobody carries over minutes except Cingular
around here. As to calling them, read my post above.
|
|This is so commonly misunderstood that customer
|service usually has the overage charges refunded before
|you finish explaining what happened. Same will apply
|if you change plans in the middle of a billing cycle but
|they are not so apt to give you the auto refund then.
|
|Your idea of not counting holidays is interesting.
|Plans are monthly. Contracts are for years. When
|prorating they figure by the month. Unused minutes
|do not carry over from month to month and not all
|months have holidays in them. How would you
|resolve that?
|
|The activation fee was probably the mistake of the
|sales person entering the contracts.
|
|Here is a trick it sounds like you missed:
|Try calling customer service and explain what
|happened and ask what they can do for you.
|
|-Quick
|
|QuienEs wrote:
|> Two of my relatives just signed up for Verizon Wireless' "America's
|> Choice" plan.
|>
|> On the surface it sounds good, 400 shared peak time minutes
|> per-month, unlimited nights and weekends usage, no long distance
|> charges and additional benefits.
|>
|> They have been with Verizon Wireless for about 10 days and the 1st
|> bill came, with some surprises:
|>
|> 1/ TRICK
|>
|> Their "month" did not start when the phones were activated,
|> SURPRISE ! -- it started 4 days later. We learned that your
"month"
|> can start anytime - the dealer told us today it is sort of random,
|> 3-days after you sign up, or 10 days or 15 days.
|>
|> The problem for them was that the first 3 days were treated as a
|> pro-rated partial month. They got screwed because they used their
|> beautiful new cell phones a lot those 1st 3 days thinking they had
400
|> peak minutes to spread over 30 or 31 days, but Verizon Wireless
|> pro-rated the 3 days at 13 peak minutes each which, in their newbie
|> enthusiasm, they had exceeded - resulting in a 3-day [ at 45-cents
per
|> minute ] charge of around $7 for "excess minutes".
|>
|> 2/ SCAM [ adding insult to injury ]
|>
|> The scam is the use of 13 minutes per day for the pro-rated period.
|> Apparently they get that figure by dividing 4800 minutes per year
by
|> 365 = 13.15 minutes per day.
|>
|> The accurate number should take into account that weekends are
free.
|> 2x52 = 104 free days. 365-104 = 261 days to which peak minutes
apply.
|> 4800/261 = 18.39 minutes allowance per peak day.
|>
|> 3/ $40 billing computer "mistake"
|>
|> They advertise: "One- or Two-year agreement required per line. $35
|> activation fee per line on one-year agreements, and $15 activation
fee
|> per line on two-year agreements."
|>
|> My relatives signed up for 2-years, confirmed by Verizon's billing
|> department and the dealer today. But the bill shows two $35
|> activation fees, not two $15 activation fees. One can assume
that
|> their billing computer makes this "mistake" for everyone.
|>
|> Comments welcome, especially about any tricks we may ahve missed.
|>
|> QE in NJ
|

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Talk with customer care. Make that "worry free guarantee" work and let us
know

"QuienEs" <QuienEsREMOVETHISandthis@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:4dm6e05tfdvl32f838hr55bftnci06bgb0@4ax.com...
> Two of my relatives just signed up for Verizon Wireless' "America's
> Choice" plan.
>
> On the surface it sounds good, 400 shared peak time minutes

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

My god, hasn't anyone read my posts about this company? They will of course
make EVERY mistake in their favor. Never will you find a mistake in your
favor. The billing system was written very carefully NEVER to make a favor
in the customer's favor. If that happened, the company would go bankrupt or
fall apart because the incompetent work force wouldn't have a clue where
their money went. *Some* customer's just blow it off and forget about
it...and there's the rub. Those customer's that do that just dumped millions
into Verizon's bank account. If you make *mistakes* to millions of
customer's your bound to get some money out of it. And that's Verizon's
thinking. Welcome to my world of the fat greedy frauderlant mouth of
Verizon.

"QuienEs" <QuienEsREMOVETHISandthis@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:4dm6e05tfdvl32f838hr55bftnci06bgb0@4ax.com...
> Two of my relatives just signed up for Verizon Wireless' "America's
> Choice" plan.
>
> On the surface it sounds good, 400 shared peak time minutes
> per-month, unlimited nights and weekends usage, no long distance
> charges and additional benefits.
>
> They have been with Verizon Wireless for about 10 days and the 1st
> bill came, with some surprises:
>
> 1/ TRICK
>
> Their "month" did not start when the phones were activated,
> SURPRISE ! -- it started 4 days later. We learned that your "month"
> can start anytime - the dealer told us today it is sort of random,
> 3-days after you sign up, or 10 days or 15 days.
>
> The problem for them was that the first 3 days were treated as a
> pro-rated partial month. They got screwed because they used their
> beautiful new cell phones a lot those 1st 3 days thinking they had 400
> peak minutes to spread over 30 or 31 days, but Verizon Wireless
> pro-rated the 3 days at 13 peak minutes each which, in their newbie
> enthusiasm, they had exceeded - resulting in a 3-day [ at 45-cents per
> minute ] charge of around $7 for "excess minutes".
>
> 2/ SCAM [ adding insult to injury ]
>
> The scam is the use of 13 minutes per day for the pro-rated period.
> Apparently they get that figure by dividing 4800 minutes per year by
> 365 = 13.15 minutes per day.
>
> The accurate number should take into account that weekends are free.
> 2x52 = 104 free days. 365-104 = 261 days to which peak minutes apply.
> 4800/261 = 18.39 minutes allowance per peak day.
>
> 3/ $40 billing computer "mistake"
>
> They advertise: "One- or Two-year agreement required per line. $35
> activation fee per line on one-year agreements, and $15 activation fee
> per line on two-year agreements."
>
> My relatives signed up for 2-years, confirmed by Verizon's billing
> department and the dealer today. But the bill shows two $35
> activation fees, not two $15 activation fees. One can assume that
> their billing computer makes this "mistake" for everyone.
>
> Comments welcome, especially about any tricks we may ahve missed.
>
> QE in NJ

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

QuienEs wrote:
> Those negotiations will take place tomorrow or Friday, must be done
> by my relatives, you know the drill - they want to be talking to
> their subscriber.
>
> What I can promise is to post a follow-up - after the negotiations and
> when I have time.
>
> The purpose of my OP was to divulge the scam and trick to the readers
> of this NG, and see if we missed anything.
>
> Why am I involved you might ask ? Because I told them that Verizon
> was worth switching to, from ATT. So, I caught some flack. I'm
> still on ATT because VZW doesn't have good signal strength in my
> wife's work building.
>
> QE
> ===========
>
> On Thu, 01 Jul 2004 00:51:51 GMT, Notan <notan@ddress.com> wrote:
>
> |QuienEs wrote:
> |>
> |> Two of my relatives just signed up for Verizon Wireless' "America's
> |> Choice" plan.
> |>
> |> <snip>
> |
> |Have you asked Verizon for a "corrected" bill?
> |
> |Notan
>

They did the same thing to me when I switched to the family plan in the
middle of the month. I refused to accept losing nearly 200 minutes
because Verizon has a policy to always extract the most from their
customers. Since I wasn't told the policy upfront, customer service
agreed to allow the total minutes I would have had coming, had they not
"pro-rated."

I have dropped Verizon dsl, pots, and just as soon as another provider
builds up their network to the point where they can provide the service
I need, I will finally drop Verizon wireless.

If you think about it, "Killer Madness" may not be as "mad" as he
appears. The fact is that your relatives would not have to worry about
customer service making things right if Verizon didn't have a policy
that unfairly penalizes customers.

Tom

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

On Thu, 01 Jul 2004 00:24:07 GMT, QuienEs
<QuienEsREMOVETHISandthis@optonline.net> wrote:
>The problem for them was that the first 3 days were treated as a
>pro-rated partial month.

This is old news. When I signed-up at a Verizon store, the agent
explained this to me and told me exactly how many minutes I would have
for peak, off-peak, and mobile-to-mobile during the first two days.

If you call them (and be nice!!), you'll probably find that they refund
the extra amount with no problems. A co-worker of mine just had this
problem with a plan change in the middle of the month, and Verizon
refunded the money with no hassle.

>My relatives signed up for 2-years, confirmed by Verizon's billing
>department and the dealer today. But the bill shows two $35
>activation fees, not two $15 activation fees. One can assume that
>their billing computer makes this "mistake" for everyone.

Actually it looks to me like the dealer made the mistake. (There are
Verizon stores all over New Jersey. Why didn't you go to one of them?)
But mistakes happen, and you'll live longer if you don't get so
aggravated about them. I'm sure they'll fix the problem.

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Clarification to my OP

I posted it to document what they did and get some joy that it will be
archived in Google Groups forever, and to see if I have missed any
other tricks. I wasn't a reader of this particular NG until today.

What KM says below is in sync with my feelings. Maybe someday there
will be a class action suit about the 13-minutes vs. 18-minutes scam.
Over the years I have automatically received the benefits of such
suits, no great shakes, but I got several free calling cards from MCI
and AT&T. The trick there is that they run out too soon if you don't
use them. The lawyers got paid in cash.

BTW, after years of suffering from this kind of corporate abuse, I
already know how to handle this with Verizon and agree with the
posters who said call them up and be nice. But why should we have to
waste time on that ? And what about the millions who don't check
their bills carefully ?

Pragmatic, pessimistic QE
======================


On Wed, 30 Jun 2004 22:38:15 -0400, "Killer Madness"
<killermo@cnet.com> wrote:

|My god, hasn't anyone read my posts about this company? They will of
course
|make EVERY mistake in their favor. Never will you find a mistake in
your
|favor. The billing system was written very carefully NEVER to make a
favor
|in the customer's favor. If that happened, the company would go
bankrupt or
|fall apart because the incompetent work force wouldn't have a clue
where
|their money went. *Some* customer's just blow it off and forget about
|it...and there's the rub. Those customer's that do that just dumped
millions
|into Verizon's bank account. If you make *mistakes* to millions of
|customer's your bound to get some money out of it. And that's
Verizon's
|thinking. Welcome to my world of the fat greedy frauderlant mouth of
|Verizon.
|
|"QuienEs" <QuienEsREMOVETHISandthis@optonline.net> wrote in message
|news:4dm6e05tfdvl32f838hr55bftnci06bgb0@4ax.com...
|> Two of my relatives just signed up for Verizon Wireless' "America's
|> Choice" plan.
|>
|> On the surface it sounds good, 400 shared peak time minutes
|> per-month, unlimited nights and weekends usage, no long distance
|> charges and additional benefits.
|>
|> They have been with Verizon Wireless for about 10 days and the 1st
|> bill came, with some surprises:
|>
|> 1/ TRICK
|>
|> Their "month" did not start when the phones were activated,
|> SURPRISE ! -- it started 4 days later. We learned that your
"month"
|> can start anytime - the dealer told us today it is sort of random,
|> 3-days after you sign up, or 10 days or 15 days.
|>
|> The problem for them was that the first 3 days were treated as a
|> pro-rated partial month. They got screwed because they used their
|> beautiful new cell phones a lot those 1st 3 days thinking they had
400
|> peak minutes to spread over 30 or 31 days, but Verizon Wireless
|> pro-rated the 3 days at 13 peak minutes each which, in their newbie
|> enthusiasm, they had exceeded - resulting in a 3-day [ at 45-cents
per
|> minute ] charge of around $7 for "excess minutes".
|>
|> 2/ SCAM [ adding insult to injury ]
|>
|> The scam is the use of 13 minutes per day for the pro-rated period.
|> Apparently they get that figure by dividing 4800 minutes per year
by
|> 365 = 13.15 minutes per day.
|>
|> The accurate number should take into account that weekends are
free.
|> 2x52 = 104 free days. 365-104 = 261 days to which peak minutes
apply.
|> 4800/261 = 18.39 minutes allowance per peak day.
|>
|> 3/ $40 billing computer "mistake"
|>
|> They advertise: "One- or Two-year agreement required per line. $35
|> activation fee per line on one-year agreements, and $15 activation
fee
|> per line on two-year agreements."
|>
|> My relatives signed up for 2-years, confirmed by Verizon's billing
|> department and the dealer today. But the bill shows two $35
|> activation fees, not two $15 activation fees. One can assume
that
|> their billing computer makes this "mistake" for everyone.
|>
|> Comments welcome, especially about any tricks we may ahve missed.
|>
|> QE in NJ
|
|

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

In article <pOKEc.2$YK5.1@fe32.usenetserver.com>,
"Killer Madness" <killermo@cnet.com> wrote:

> My god, hasn't anyone read my posts about this company? They will of course
> make EVERY mistake in their favor. Never will you find a mistake in your
> favor. The billing system was written very carefully NEVER to make a favor
> in the customer's favor. If that happened, the company would go bankrupt or
> fall apart because the incompetent work force wouldn't have a clue where
> their money went. *Some* customer's just blow it off and forget about
> it...and there's the rub. Those customer's that do that just dumped millions
> into Verizon's bank account. If you make *mistakes* to millions of
> customer's your bound to get some money out of it. And that's Verizon's
> thinking. Welcome to my world of the fat greedy frauderlant mouth of
> Verizon.

You know, I've had a few issues with Verizon over the last couple of
years... but the good *far* outweighs the bad.

For example, they recently sent me 3 phones at *NO* cost to me when they
didn't even have to give me the time of day.

I had problems with my 3 Motorola V60s phones I bought 2 months ago. I
went to a local re-seller (Grand Wireless of Warwick Rhode Island) and
re-upped my contract for 2 years. I then upgraded from 2 V60i's to 3
V60s's for $40 bucks each.

After about 3 weeks, I noticed that I was not getting some calls. The
call would come in to the phone, and the phone would not ring. It
wouldn't show on the outer or inner screen - but would show up in the
Recent Calls Log on the phone. You could call it with the phone in your
hand, and there was no indication that a call was coming in... but it
definitetly *was* receiving a call.

( - Check out old threads on this group for the full story - )

Then I noticed that it was happening at random times to each of the 3
phones. Same phones, in the same room, with good battery strength and
great signal strength. One phone would *not* work, while the other two
were fine. Rebooting the phone fixed the problem for a time

Motorola tried to flash upgrade the software, but that didn't work. I
then found out that there were others out there with the *exact* same
problem. Grand Wireless didn't want to hear it. The gave me a few lame
suggestions, but really didn't want to bother.

So I called Verizon Customer Service. THEY called Grand Wireless and
got them to agree to swap out my 3 phones for 3 different models. To
make a long story short, Grand Wireless agreed to this, but proceeded to
give me the runaround for a week and a half - but finally told me to
come in and swap out the V60s's for LG 4400's. (Their choice, not
mine....)

When I got down there, they informed me that, yes, I could swap out the
phones... but I would have to pay an extra $79.99 per phone for the
privilege. That's an extra $240 bucks, on top of the $120 I'd already
paid originally.

Well, screw that! I called Verizon back and read them the Riot Act.
(Not because they did anything to cause my problem... but because they
laid the initial ground work with Grand Wireless for the swap out.)

I talked to a Supervisor who asked me what I wanted. I said "3 new
phones that work". She asked me if I had any particular phone in mind -
and I told her about the Samsung a530 I had researched on the net. She
took my name and address down and said they would take care of it.

Two days later, I received 3 new Samsung a530's via FedEx. I activated
all 3 in about 20 minutes over the phone. Problem solved.

To cap it all off, I called back and asked for the address I was
supposed to send the 3 Motorola phones back to - and was told that I
could "keep them as backups". Since I didn't buy them from Verizon,
they had no interest in getting them back. She said I could keep them
as Emergency phones, since any cell phone can dial "911", even if you
don't subscribe to a service.

> Welcome to my world of the fat greedy frauderlant mouth of Verizon.

Not in this guy's opinion... I got 3 brandy-new phones for zip... I
got great customer service.. and I got that bad taste out of my mouth
from pricks at Grand Wireless.

Fred

--
"Light moves faster than sound. That's why some
folks appear bright until you hear them speak..."