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Startup

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Anonymous
August 22, 2004 6:19:08 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

Does the Startup folder not work in PPC 2003?

I put a Pocket Excel file (not a shortcut, that didn't work either) in
it and nothing happens. There is no help for Startup.

TIA

More about : startup

Anonymous
August 22, 2004 1:50:45 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

"normc" <normc@socal.rr.com> wrote in message
news:qyZVc.4913$rP2.1426@hydra.nntpserver.com...
> Does the Startup folder not work in PPC 2003?
>
> I put a Pocket Excel file (not a shortcut, that didn't work either) in
> it and nothing happens. There is no help for Startup.
>
> TIA
>

No, it doesn't work this way...

But, you can put a shortcut to it in the Programs
list, where it'll be only two taps away...

I have my customer lists, my mileage record,
etc. set up this way and have cut most of the shorcuts
to other programs I rarely use out of the Programs
menu to make it lean 'n mean.
Anonymous
August 22, 2004 7:38:09 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

"normc" <normc@socal.rr.com> wrote in message
news:qyZVc.4913$rP2.1426@hydra.nntpserver.com...
> Does the Startup folder not work in PPC 2003?
>
> I put a Pocket Excel file (not a shortcut, that didn't work either) in it
> and nothing happens. There is no help for Startup.
>
> TIA
>

Hi,

You will need to perform a soft reset to open the applications (short-cut)
or files that are placed in the startup folder. Merely turning the PPC
on/off doesn't result in a startup.

--
Regards,
Raj
Related resources
Anonymous
August 22, 2004 8:18:22 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

"normc" <normc@socal.rr.com> wrote in message
news:qyZVc.4913$rP2.1426@hydra.nntpserver.com...
> Does the Startup folder not work in PPC 2003?
>
> I put a Pocket Excel file (not a shortcut, that didn't work either) in
> it and nothing happens. There is no help for Startup.
>
> TIA
>

2 things- try a soft reset, and if you've tried that try creating a shortcut
in startup to a blank document rather than the program itself. Don't forget
to Save As if you do it this second way or you will just open the modified
document on future restarts (soft resets).
Anonymous
August 22, 2004 11:59:38 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

AlanS wrote:

> "normc" <normc@socal.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:qyZVc.4913$rP2.1426@hydra.nntpserver.com...
>
>>Does the Startup folder not work in PPC 2003?
>>
>>I put a Pocket Excel file (not a shortcut, that didn't work either) in
>>it and nothing happens. There is no help for Startup.
>>
>>TIA
>>
>
>
> 2 things- try a soft reset, and if you've tried that

Thanks, I had already tried that.


> try creating a shortcut
> in startup to a blank document rather than the program itself.

As I said in the OP, I put a shortcut to an Excel document in Startup,
not the program, itself. The file contains a list that I look at as
soon as I power up in the morning.

> Don't forget
> to Save As if you do it this second way or you will just open the modified
> document on future restarts (soft resets).

Are you saying that powering up is not considered Startup... that soft
reset is?

>
>
Anonymous
August 23, 2004 12:08:16 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

V Green wrote:

> "normc" <normc@socal.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:qyZVc.4913$rP2.1426@hydra.nntpserver.com...
>
>>Does the Startup folder not work in PPC 2003?
>>
>>I put a Pocket Excel file (not a shortcut, that didn't work either) in
>>it and nothing happens. There is no help for Startup.
>>
>>TIA
>>
>
>
> No, it doesn't work this way...

Do you, or anyone else, know how it DOES work?

>
> But, you can put a shortcut to it in the Programs
> list, where it'll be only two taps away...

Even better (for me), I put shortcuts to all my pertinent Excel files in
the Start Menu.

>
> I have my customer lists, my mileage record,
> etc. set up this way and have cut most of the shorcuts
> to other programs I rarely use out of the Programs
> menu to make it lean 'n mean.

Speaking of 'lean and mean', I went through the entire system with File
Explorer and found shortcuts lying around in strange places. I had not
placed these shortcuts. Didn't even know how to determine file type
until I upgraded do Spb Pocket Plus v2.1 a couple weeks ago.

Thanks for your inputs.
>
>
Anonymous
August 23, 2004 3:07:34 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

Powerup is not the same as Soft reset...

Remember... technically the Pocket PC is always on... the power switch only
puts it into suspend mode. The Soft reset though reads through the Startup
folder.

--
Carlo Ma. Guerrero
Microsoft MVP, Mobile Devices


"normc" <normc@socal.rr.com> wrote in message
news:E4dWc.21940$rP2.11900@hydra.nntpserver.com...
AlanS wrote:

> "normc" <normc@socal.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:qyZVc.4913$rP2.1426@hydra.nntpserver.com...
>
>>Does the Startup folder not work in PPC 2003?
>>
>>I put a Pocket Excel file (not a shortcut, that didn't work either) in
>>it and nothing happens. There is no help for Startup.
>>
>>TIA
>>
>
>
> 2 things- try a soft reset, and if you've tried that

Thanks, I had already tried that.


> try creating a shortcut
> in startup to a blank document rather than the program itself.

As I said in the OP, I put a shortcut to an Excel document in Startup,
not the program, itself. The file contains a list that I look at as
soon as I power up in the morning.

> Don't forget
> to Save As if you do it this second way or you will just open the modified
> document on future restarts (soft resets).

Are you saying that powering up is not considered Startup... that soft
reset is?

>
>
Anonymous
August 23, 2004 3:07:35 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

Carlo Ma. Guerrero [MVP] wrote:
> Powerup is not the same as Soft reset...
>
> Remember... technically the Pocket PC is always on... the power switch only
> puts it into suspend mode. The Soft reset though reads through the Startup
> folder.
>

Got it. Thanks.
Anonymous
August 23, 2004 3:13:13 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

Shortcuts can only be found in two places... The Start Menu folder and its
sub folders... and the Windows Folder where these shortcut originals are
stored.

--
Carlo Ma. Guerrero
Microsoft MVP, Mobile Devices


"normc" <normc@socal.rr.com> wrote in message
news:KcdWc.22083$rP2.13182@hydra.nntpserver.com...
V Green wrote:

> "normc" <normc@socal.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:qyZVc.4913$rP2.1426@hydra.nntpserver.com...
>
>>Does the Startup folder not work in PPC 2003?
>>
>>I put a Pocket Excel file (not a shortcut, that didn't work either) in
>>it and nothing happens. There is no help for Startup.
>>
>>TIA
>>
>
>
> No, it doesn't work this way...

Do you, or anyone else, know how it DOES work?

>
> But, you can put a shortcut to it in the Programs
> list, where it'll be only two taps away...

Even better (for me), I put shortcuts to all my pertinent Excel files in
the Start Menu.

>
> I have my customer lists, my mileage record,
> etc. set up this way and have cut most of the shorcuts
> to other programs I rarely use out of the Programs
> menu to make it lean 'n mean.

Speaking of 'lean and mean', I went through the entire system with File
Explorer and found shortcuts lying around in strange places. I had not
placed these shortcuts. Didn't even know how to determine file type
until I upgraded do Spb Pocket Plus v2.1 a couple weeks ago.

Thanks for your inputs.
>
>
Anonymous
August 23, 2004 3:13:14 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

?? Shortcuts can be found and placed about anywhere. They are not especially
useful most places, but they can be there.

--
Sven, MS-MVP Mobile Devices
"Carlo Ma. Guerrero [MVP]" <ppcsurfr@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:esXOj8LiEHA.3320@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> Shortcuts can only be found in two places... The Start Menu folder and its
> sub folders... and the Windows Folder where these shortcut originals are
> stored.
>
> --
> Carlo Ma. Guerrero
> Microsoft MVP, Mobile Devices
>
>
> "normc" <normc@socal.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:KcdWc.22083$rP2.13182@hydra.nntpserver.com...
> V Green wrote:
>
> > "normc" <normc@socal.rr.com> wrote in message
> > news:qyZVc.4913$rP2.1426@hydra.nntpserver.com...
> >
> >>Does the Startup folder not work in PPC 2003?
> >>
> >>I put a Pocket Excel file (not a shortcut, that didn't work either) in
> >>it and nothing happens. There is no help for Startup.
> >>
> >>TIA
> >>
> >
> >
> > No, it doesn't work this way...
>
> Do you, or anyone else, know how it DOES work?
>
> >
> > But, you can put a shortcut to it in the Programs
> > list, where it'll be only two taps away...
>
> Even better (for me), I put shortcuts to all my pertinent Excel files in
> the Start Menu.
>
> >
> > I have my customer lists, my mileage record,
> > etc. set up this way and have cut most of the shorcuts
> > to other programs I rarely use out of the Programs
> > menu to make it lean 'n mean.
>
> Speaking of 'lean and mean', I went through the entire system with File
> Explorer and found shortcuts lying around in strange places. I had not
> placed these shortcuts. Didn't even know how to determine file type
> until I upgraded do Spb Pocket Plus v2.1 a couple weeks ago.
>
> Thanks for your inputs.
> >
> >
>
>
Anonymous
August 23, 2004 3:13:15 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

Sven, MVP-Mobile Devices wrote:

> ?? Shortcuts can be found and placed about anywhere. They are not especially
> useful most places, but they can be there.
>

Thanks for the clarification.
Anonymous
August 23, 2004 5:05:12 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

I meant... on a fresh unit...

Oh... I'd like to add... the Start Menu and its subfolders, the Windows
folder where the original shortcuts are, and the Startup folder. These are
where Shortcuts are most useful... =)

--
Carlo Ma. Guerrero
Microsoft MVP, Mobile Devices


"Sven, MVP-Mobile Devices" <sejohannsen@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ek0vlbMiEHA.1036@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
?? Shortcuts can be found and placed about anywhere. They are not especially
useful most places, but they can be there.

--
Sven, MS-MVP Mobile Devices
"Carlo Ma. Guerrero [MVP]" <ppcsurfr@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:esXOj8LiEHA.3320@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> Shortcuts can only be found in two places... The Start Menu folder and its
> sub folders... and the Windows Folder where these shortcut originals are
> stored.
>
> --
> Carlo Ma. Guerrero
> Microsoft MVP, Mobile Devices
>
>
> "normc" <normc@socal.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:KcdWc.22083$rP2.13182@hydra.nntpserver.com...
> V Green wrote:
>
> > "normc" <normc@socal.rr.com> wrote in message
> > news:qyZVc.4913$rP2.1426@hydra.nntpserver.com...
> >
> >>Does the Startup folder not work in PPC 2003?
> >>
> >>I put a Pocket Excel file (not a shortcut, that didn't work either) in
> >>it and nothing happens. There is no help for Startup.
> >>
> >>TIA
> >>
> >
> >
> > No, it doesn't work this way...
>
> Do you, or anyone else, know how it DOES work?
>
> >
> > But, you can put a shortcut to it in the Programs
> > list, where it'll be only two taps away...
>
> Even better (for me), I put shortcuts to all my pertinent Excel files in
> the Start Menu.
>
> >
> > I have my customer lists, my mileage record,
> > etc. set up this way and have cut most of the shorcuts
> > to other programs I rarely use out of the Programs
> > menu to make it lean 'n mean.
>
> Speaking of 'lean and mean', I went through the entire system with File
> Explorer and found shortcuts lying around in strange places. I had not
> placed these shortcuts. Didn't even know how to determine file type
> until I upgraded do Spb Pocket Plus v2.1 a couple weeks ago.
>
> Thanks for your inputs.
> >
> >
>
>
Anonymous
August 23, 2004 5:05:13 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

I agree with that. I find it irritating that some installs will actually
put a shortcut to the application in the PPC My Documents folder. Pocket
Streets, of all things, is one.

--
Sven, MS-MVP Mobile Devices
"Carlo Ma. Guerrero [MVP]" <ppcsurfr@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:o 7%23fH7MiEHA.3476@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> I meant... on a fresh unit...
>
> Oh... I'd like to add... the Start Menu and its subfolders, the Windows
> folder where the original shortcuts are, and the Startup folder. These
are
> where Shortcuts are most useful... =)
>
> --
> Carlo Ma. Guerrero
> Microsoft MVP, Mobile Devices
>
>
> "Sven, MVP-Mobile Devices" <sejohannsen@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:ek0vlbMiEHA.1036@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> ?? Shortcuts can be found and placed about anywhere. They are not
especially
> useful most places, but they can be there.
>
> --
> Sven, MS-MVP Mobile Devices
> "Carlo Ma. Guerrero [MVP]" <ppcsurfr@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:esXOj8LiEHA.3320@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> > Shortcuts can only be found in two places... The Start Menu folder and
its
> > sub folders... and the Windows Folder where these shortcut originals are
> > stored.
> >
> > --
> > Carlo Ma. Guerrero
> > Microsoft MVP, Mobile Devices
> >
> >
> > "normc" <normc@socal.rr.com> wrote in message
> > news:KcdWc.22083$rP2.13182@hydra.nntpserver.com...
> > V Green wrote:
> >
> > > "normc" <normc@socal.rr.com> wrote in message
> > > news:qyZVc.4913$rP2.1426@hydra.nntpserver.com...
> > >
> > >>Does the Startup folder not work in PPC 2003?
> > >>
> > >>I put a Pocket Excel file (not a shortcut, that didn't work either) in
> > >>it and nothing happens. There is no help for Startup.
> > >>
> > >>TIA
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > No, it doesn't work this way...
> >
> > Do you, or anyone else, know how it DOES work?
> >
> > >
> > > But, you can put a shortcut to it in the Programs
> > > list, where it'll be only two taps away...
> >
> > Even better (for me), I put shortcuts to all my pertinent Excel files in
> > the Start Menu.
> >
> > >
> > > I have my customer lists, my mileage record,
> > > etc. set up this way and have cut most of the shorcuts
> > > to other programs I rarely use out of the Programs
> > > menu to make it lean 'n mean.
> >
> > Speaking of 'lean and mean', I went through the entire system with File
> > Explorer and found shortcuts lying around in strange places. I had not
> > placed these shortcuts. Didn't even know how to determine file type
> > until I upgraded do Spb Pocket Plus v2.1 a couple weeks ago.
> >
> > Thanks for your inputs.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>
Anonymous
August 23, 2004 10:09:33 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

"Carlo Ma. Guerrero [MVP]" <ppcsurfr@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:esXOj8LiEHA.3320@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> Shortcuts can only be found in two places... The Start Menu folder and its
> sub folders... and the Windows Folder where these shortcut originals are
> stored.

Yeah, that's a mistake on my part-as the OP has already
noted, we're talking about the Start menu...

>
> --
> Carlo Ma. Guerrero
> Microsoft MVP, Mobile Devices
>
>
> "normc" <normc@socal.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:KcdWc.22083$rP2.13182@hydra.nntpserver.com...
> V Green wrote:
>
> > "normc" <normc@socal.rr.com> wrote in message
> > news:qyZVc.4913$rP2.1426@hydra.nntpserver.com...
> >
> >>Does the Startup folder not work in PPC 2003?
> >>
> >>I put a Pocket Excel file (not a shortcut, that didn't work either) in
> >>it and nothing happens. There is no help for Startup.
> >>
> >>TIA
> >>
> >
> >
> > No, it doesn't work this way...
>
> Do you, or anyone else, know how it DOES work?
>
> >
> > But, you can put a shortcut to it in the Programs
> > list, where it'll be only two taps away...
>
> Even better (for me), I put shortcuts to all my pertinent Excel files in
> the Start Menu.
>
> >
> > I have my customer lists, my mileage record,
> > etc. set up this way and have cut most of the shorcuts
> > to other programs I rarely use out of the Programs
> > menu to make it lean 'n mean.
>
> Speaking of 'lean and mean', I went through the entire system with File
> Explorer and found shortcuts lying around in strange places. I had not
> placed these shortcuts. Didn't even know how to determine file type
> until I upgraded do Spb Pocket Plus v2.1 a couple weeks ago.
>
> Thanks for your inputs.
> >
> >
>
>
Anonymous
August 24, 2004 6:12:52 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

Carlo Ma. Guerrero [MVP] wrote:

> I meant... on a fresh unit...
>
> Oh... I'd like to add... the Start Menu and its subfolders, the Windows
> folder where the original shortcuts are, and the Startup folder. These are
> where Shortcuts are most useful... =)
>

Exactly what purpose does the MY DEVICE | WINDOWS | SHORTCUT folder
serve? It contains a number of shortcuts, some in folders. I did not
put them there.

TIA
Anonymous
August 24, 2004 4:46:48 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

> Do you, or anyone else, know how it DOES work?

Placing a file or shortcut to a file in the \windows\startup directory will
cause that file to be executed (as if you clicked on the file) when the
device is reset.
If it is not executing that file on your device when you perform a soft
reset, reply to this newsgroup and we can examine your device further.

Ammon Larson [MSFT]
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

"normc" <normc@socal.rr.com> wrote in message
news:KcdWc.22083$rP2.13182@hydra.nntpserver.com...
> V Green wrote:
>
> > "normc" <normc@socal.rr.com> wrote in message
> > news:qyZVc.4913$rP2.1426@hydra.nntpserver.com...
> >
> >>Does the Startup folder not work in PPC 2003?
> >>
> >>I put a Pocket Excel file (not a shortcut, that didn't work either) in
> >>it and nothing happens. There is no help for Startup.
> >>
> >>TIA
> >>
> >
> >
> > No, it doesn't work this way...
>
> Do you, or anyone else, know how it DOES work?
>
> >
> > But, you can put a shortcut to it in the Programs
> > list, where it'll be only two taps away...
>
> Even better (for me), I put shortcuts to all my pertinent Excel files in
> the Start Menu.
>
> >
> > I have my customer lists, my mileage record,
> > etc. set up this way and have cut most of the shorcuts
> > to other programs I rarely use out of the Programs
> > menu to make it lean 'n mean.
>
> Speaking of 'lean and mean', I went through the entire system with File
> Explorer and found shortcuts lying around in strange places. I had not
> placed these shortcuts. Didn't even know how to determine file type
> until I upgraded do Spb Pocket Plus v2.1 a couple weeks ago.
>
> Thanks for your inputs.
> >
> >
>
Anonymous
August 24, 2004 4:47:14 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

> Do you, or anyone else, know how it DOES work?

Placing a file or shortcut to a file in the \windows\startup directory will
cause that file to be executed (as if you clicked on the file) when the
device is reset.
If it is not executing that file on your device when you perform a soft
reset, reply to this newsgroup and we can examine your device further.

Ammon Larson [MSFT]
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

"normc" <normc@socal.rr.com> wrote in message
news:KcdWc.22083$rP2.13182@hydra.nntpserver.com...
> V Green wrote:
>
> > "normc" <normc@socal.rr.com> wrote in message
> > news:qyZVc.4913$rP2.1426@hydra.nntpserver.com...
> >
> >>Does the Startup folder not work in PPC 2003?
> >>
> >>I put a Pocket Excel file (not a shortcut, that didn't work either) in
> >>it and nothing happens. There is no help for Startup.
> >>
> >>TIA
> >>
> >
> >
> > No, it doesn't work this way...
>
> Do you, or anyone else, know how it DOES work?
>
> >
> > But, you can put a shortcut to it in the Programs
> > list, where it'll be only two taps away...
>
> Even better (for me), I put shortcuts to all my pertinent Excel files in
> the Start Menu.
>
> >
> > I have my customer lists, my mileage record,
> > etc. set up this way and have cut most of the shorcuts
> > to other programs I rarely use out of the Programs
> > menu to make it lean 'n mean.
>
> Speaking of 'lean and mean', I went through the entire system with File
> Explorer and found shortcuts lying around in strange places. I had not
> placed these shortcuts. Didn't even know how to determine file type
> until I upgraded do Spb Pocket Plus v2.1 a couple weeks ago.
>
> Thanks for your inputs.
> >
> >
>
Anonymous
August 24, 2004 4:47:28 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

> Do you, or anyone else, know how it DOES work?

Placing a file or shortcut to a file in the \windows\startup directory will
cause that file to be executed (as if you clicked on the file) when the
device is reset.
If it is not executing that file on your device when you perform a soft
reset, reply to this newsgroup and we can examine your device further.

Ammon Larson [MSFT]
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

"normc" <normc@socal.rr.com> wrote in message
news:KcdWc.22083$rP2.13182@hydra.nntpserver.com...
> V Green wrote:
>
> > "normc" <normc@socal.rr.com> wrote in message
> > news:qyZVc.4913$rP2.1426@hydra.nntpserver.com...
> >
> >>Does the Startup folder not work in PPC 2003?
> >>
> >>I put a Pocket Excel file (not a shortcut, that didn't work either) in
> >>it and nothing happens. There is no help for Startup.
> >>
> >>TIA
> >>
> >
> >
> > No, it doesn't work this way...
>
> Do you, or anyone else, know how it DOES work?
>
> >
> > But, you can put a shortcut to it in the Programs
> > list, where it'll be only two taps away...
>
> Even better (for me), I put shortcuts to all my pertinent Excel files in
> the Start Menu.
>
> >
> > I have my customer lists, my mileage record,
> > etc. set up this way and have cut most of the shorcuts
> > to other programs I rarely use out of the Programs
> > menu to make it lean 'n mean.
>
> Speaking of 'lean and mean', I went through the entire system with File
> Explorer and found shortcuts lying around in strange places. I had not
> placed these shortcuts. Didn't even know how to determine file type
> until I upgraded do Spb Pocket Plus v2.1 a couple weeks ago.
>
> Thanks for your inputs.
> >
> >
>
Anonymous
August 24, 2004 7:01:20 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

Well the Startup folder works sort of like you would expect it to work, the
problem is in what you expect. Not that you have a problem, just that your
expectations are different from what is actually happening.

The shortcuts start when the PPC starts, as in boots up. That makes it
almost useless as most PPCs boot up very rarely. Instead, it suspends are
resumes, which is more like hibernate or standby on a workstation.

So some of the original responses suggested a soft reset, and maybe you
tried that. But of course that did not get your shortcuts to run when you
used the on/off switch did it? To do what you want to do, which I think is
start an app when the on/off switch turns on the PPC, would require an app
to register a request to run when the PPC resumes. There may be a shareware
app that does this, I don't know.

--
Bruce Eitman (eMVP)
Senior Engineer
beitman AT applieddata DOT net

Applied Data Systems
www.applieddata.net
An ISO 9001:2000 Registered Company
Microsoft WEP Gold-level Member

Do have an opinion on the effectiveness of Microsoft Windows Mobile and
Embedded newsgroups? Let us know!
https://www.windowsembeddedeval.com/community/newsgroup...
Anonymous
August 24, 2004 8:25:17 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

Bruce Eitman (eMVP) wrote:

> Well the Startup folder works sort of like you would expect it to work, the
> problem is in what you expect. Not that you have a problem, just that your
> expectations are different from what is actually happening.
>
> The shortcuts start when the PPC starts, as in boots up. That makes it
> almost useless as most PPCs boot up very rarely. Instead, it suspends are
> resumes, which is more like hibernate or standby on a workstation.
>
> So some of the original responses suggested a soft reset, and maybe you
> tried that. But of course that did not get your shortcuts to run when you
> used the on/off switch did it? To do what you want to do, which I think is
> start an app when the on/off switch turns on the PPC, would require an app
> to register a request to run when the PPC resumes. There may be a shareware
> app that does this, I don't know.
>

You got everything right. Thanks for the input.
Anonymous
August 24, 2004 8:32:23 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

Ammon Larson [MSFT] wrote:

>>Do you, or anyone else, know how it DOES work?
>
>
> Placing a file or shortcut to a file in the \windows\startup directory will
> cause that file to be executed (as if you clicked on the file) when the
> device is reset.
> If it is not executing that file on your device when you perform a soft
> reset, reply to this newsgroup and we can examine your device further.

Thanks. Could you, perhaps, give me some idea what useful purpose the
STARTUP folder provides? Certainly no question about purpose of such a
folder in the Windows desktop systems, including XT.

>
> Ammon Larson [MSFT]
> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
>
> "normc" <normc@socal.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:KcdWc.22083$rP2.13182@hydra.nntpserver.com...
>
>>V Green wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"normc" <normc@socal.rr.com> wrote in message
>>>news:qyZVc.4913$rP2.1426@hydra.nntpserver.com...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Does the Startup folder not work in PPC 2003?
>>>>
>>>>I put a Pocket Excel file (not a shortcut, that didn't work either) in
>>>>it and nothing happens. There is no help for Startup.
>>>>
>>>>TIA
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>No, it doesn't work this way...
>>
>>Do you, or anyone else, know how it DOES work?
>>
>>
>>>But, you can put a shortcut to it in the Programs
>>>list, where it'll be only two taps away...
>>
>>Even better (for me), I put shortcuts to all my pertinent Excel files in
>>the Start Menu.
>>
>>
>>>I have my customer lists, my mileage record,
>>>etc. set up this way and have cut most of the shorcuts
>>>to other programs I rarely use out of the Programs
>>>menu to make it lean 'n mean.
>>
>>Speaking of 'lean and mean', I went through the entire system with File
>>Explorer and found shortcuts lying around in strange places. I had not
>>placed these shortcuts. Didn't even know how to determine file type
>>until I upgraded do Spb Pocket Plus v2.1 a couple weeks ago.
>>
>>Thanks for your inputs.
>>
>>>
>
>
Anonymous
August 25, 2004 3:01:16 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

Hmmm... I don't have that folder in any of my PPCs... what model is that
again?

--
Carlo Ma. Guerrero
Microsoft MVP, Mobile Devices


"normc" <normc@socal.rr.com> wrote in message
news:CEDWc.31729$rP2.4269@hydra.nntpserver.com...
Carlo Ma. Guerrero [MVP] wrote:

> I meant... on a fresh unit...
>
> Oh... I'd like to add... the Start Menu and its subfolders, the Windows
> folder where the original shortcuts are, and the Startup folder. These
> are
> where Shortcuts are most useful... =)
>

Exactly what purpose does the MY DEVICE | WINDOWS | SHORTCUT folder
serve? It contains a number of shortcuts, some in folders. I did not
put them there.

TIA
Anonymous
August 25, 2004 3:01:17 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

Carlo Ma. Guerrero [MVP] wrote:
> Hmmm... I don't have that folder in any of my PPCs... what model is that
> again?
>

Microsoft Pocket PC
Version 4.20.1081 (Build 13100)
Processor: Intel PXA263
Running in Dell Ax3i

I don't mean to hurt the feelings of any Microsoft people, but I've been
appalled with the totally illogical design of this OS. Is there some
secret online documentation that fully covers its hidden capabilities?

The least they could have done is covered all the features in HELP.

It is hard for me to understand how, after more than 20 years of
Microsoft operating systems, a FIND command can be so useless. Are
there any 3rd party FIND applications?

Anyone here who has considered going back to a Palm after 'discovering'
PPC 2003?

TIA
August 25, 2004 3:01:18 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

Reply to message from normc <normc@socal.rr.com> (Tue, 24 Aug 2004 18:25:
46) about "Re: Startup":


n> Carlo Ma. Guerrero [MVP] wrote:
>> Hmmm... I don't have that folder in any of my PPCs... what model is
>> that again?


n> Microsoft Pocket PC Version 4.20.1081 (Build 13100) Processor: Intel
n> PXA263 Running in Dell Ax3i

n> I don't mean to hurt the feelings of any Microsoft people, but I've
n> been appalled with the totally illogical design of this OS. Is there
n> some secret online documentation that fully covers its hidden
n> capabilities?

n> The least they could have done is covered all the features in HELP.

n> It is hard for me to understand how, after more than 20 years of
n> Microsoft operating systems, a FIND command can be so useless. Are
n> there any 3rd party FIND applications?

n> Anyone here who has considered going back to a Palm after 'discovering'
n> PPC
n> 2003?

Nope. I used just about every Palm up to a Sony Clie. I recently changed to
an iPAQ 2210 and I love it. Great satnav and effortless networking at a
good overall price. The task switcher is good too.




Bye
Martin <martin@scotland.org> Tue, 24 Aug 2004 20:29:53 +0100

=== Posted with Qusnetsoft NewsReader 2.2.0.8
Anonymous
August 25, 2004 3:01:18 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

Not sure why you think it is illogical, unless you think the windows on the
desktop is as well. It follows that quite closely. You might want to get
yourself a File Explorer that is more like what you are accustomed to like
Resco File Explorer. Looking at the tree it appears much like a desktop PC.
The built in file explorer is not really intended to be used much by the
average consumer I would think. The applications you would use are exposed
to the user on the start menu or the applications page. Each one typically
opens to a file dialog that is filtered to documents appropriate to the
application loaded. You shouldn't need to dig for your files in the file
explorer.

The Find work a bit differently but I think sensibly on the device. It finds
strings in user data. If for instance you recall where an appointment is or
who it is with, but don't recall the date, Find will get it for you. If you
know the amount, but don't know which Pocket Excel spreadsheet it's in, Find
will get it for you. If you are looking for oddball.dll, that's not what it
is for. If that's what you want, again Resco.

As far as the Shortcuts folder, you'd have to ask Dell why they added it,
it's not on my other PPCs. My guess would be to have a simple place for tech
support to go and recover shortcuts that users deleted out of the Start Menu
folder, instead of having to walk them through finding the app, creating a
shortcut and moving it, and possibly renaming it.

The Startup folder does exactly the same as the Startup folder does on a
desktop. You just need to understand that turning the unit on is not a
startup. A soft reset, somewhat equivalent to a re-boot, is. I know there is
a way to programmatically detect turn on and execute based on that detection
as there have been third party products that do that. My favorite was the
one that played the Star Trek communicator sound whenever you turned the PPC
on....that lasted for about a day on my Jornada.

--
Sven, MS-MVP Mobile Devices
"normc" <normc@socal.rr.com> wrote in message
news:KSKWc.32754$rP2.19449@hydra.nntpserver.com...
> Carlo Ma. Guerrero [MVP] wrote:
> > Hmmm... I don't have that folder in any of my PPCs... what model is that
> > again?
> >
>
> Microsoft Pocket PC
> Version 4.20.1081 (Build 13100)
> Processor: Intel PXA263
> Running in Dell Ax3i
>
> I don't mean to hurt the feelings of any Microsoft people, but I've been
> appalled with the totally illogical design of this OS. Is there some
> secret online documentation that fully covers its hidden capabilities?
>
> The least they could have done is covered all the features in HELP.
>
> It is hard for me to understand how, after more than 20 years of
> Microsoft operating systems, a FIND command can be so useless. Are
> there any 3rd party FIND applications?
>
> Anyone here who has considered going back to a Palm after 'discovering'
> PPC 2003?
>
> TIA
>
Anonymous
August 25, 2004 3:01:19 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

Martin wrote:

> Reply to message from normc <normc@socal.rr.com> (Tue, 24 Aug 2004 18:25:
> 46) about "Re: Startup":
>
>
> n> Carlo Ma. Guerrero [MVP] wrote:
> >> Hmmm... I don't have that folder in any of my PPCs... what model is
> >> that again?
>
>
> n> Microsoft Pocket PC Version 4.20.1081 (Build 13100) Processor: Intel
> n> PXA263 Running in Dell Ax3i
>
> n> I don't mean to hurt the feelings of any Microsoft people, but I've
> n> been appalled with the totally illogical design of this OS. Is there
> n> some secret online documentation that fully covers its hidden
> n> capabilities?
>
> n> The least they could have done is covered all the features in HELP.
>
> n> It is hard for me to understand how, after more than 20 years of
> n> Microsoft operating systems, a FIND command can be so useless. Are
> n> there any 3rd party FIND applications?
>
> n> Anyone here who has considered going back to a Palm after 'discovering'
> n> PPC
> n> 2003?
>
> Nope. I used just about every Palm up to a Sony Clie. I recently changed to
> an iPAQ 2210 and I love it. Great satnav and effortless networking at a
> good overall price. The task switcher is good too.

Thanks for your input!

>
>
>
>
> Bye
> Martin <martin@scotland.org> Tue, 24 Aug 2004 20:29:53 +0100
>
> === Posted with Qusnetsoft NewsReader 2.2.0.8
Anonymous
August 25, 2004 6:57:19 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

Sven, MVP-Mobile Devices wrote:

> Not sure why you think it is illogical,

Don't want to get into a pissing contest about logic. All people are
not created equal when it comes to logic, and I may be on the short
side, even though I've taken logic courses and done logical design.
Sorry I neglected to say 'IMHO' <g>.

> unless you think the windows on the desktop is as well.

Not at all. After writing exec and autoexec files for PC/MSDOS and then
having the pleasure of a startup folder in OS2 and MS Windows, I
suspect that my problem is that I've been using Windows for so long, I
just expected that the STARTUP folder worked like it does on virtually
all the personal computers in the world. That is, unless otherwise
specified. And I haven't been able to find any unique features
described either in HELP or my Dell User's Manual.

IMHO, there are a number of ambiguities in PPC 2003, which could have,
and, IMHO, should have been covered in the documentation. Is not MS
responsible for the online HELP? Perhaps it is only Dell that didn't
provide anything useful in their User's Manual.

One unique feature is the extra capability you get if you make your
keyboard 'small'. It's a whole new world. Isn't this the same in all
PDAs running PPC 2003? Has any manufacturer of PDAs documented this?
Do they even know about it? Has anyone else here recognized this unique
feature?

> It follows that quite closely. You might want to get
> yourself a File Explorer that is more like what you are accustomed to like
> Resco File Explorer. Looking at the tree it appears much like a desktop PC.
> The built in file explorer is not really intended to be used much by the
> average consumer I would think. The applications you would use are exposed
> to the user on the start menu or the applications page. Each one typically
> opens to a file dialog that is filtered to documents appropriate to the
> application loaded. You shouldn't need to dig for your files in the file
> explorer.

Thanks, I'll take a look at the Resco File Explorer. I've been using
the latest version of Spb Pocket Plus to explore. Seem to be quite adequate

>
> The Find work a bit differently but I think sensibly on the device. It finds
> strings in user data. If for instance you recall where an appointment is or
> who it is with, but don't recall the date, Find will get it for you.

Yes, this is clear, and I have used it this way.

> If you
> know the amount, but don't know which Pocket Excel spreadsheet it's in, Find
> will get it for you.

Please clarify this example. Are you saying that if I know an amount
(number, dollars, etc.) that I put into a Pocket Excel spreadsheet, but
I can't remember the name I gave the file, that I can find it by using
FIND?????

> If you are looking for oddball.dll, that's not what it
> is for. If that's what you want, again Resco.

So Resco has a browse (explorer) function and a FIND function? To find
a number in a spreadsheet would require the ability to find a word, or
set of words, such as Ransack/FileLocator does on the PC.

>
> As far as the Shortcuts folder, you'd have to ask Dell why they added it,
> it's not on my other PPCs. My guess would be to have a simple place for tech
> support to go and recover shortcuts that users deleted out of the Start Menu
> folder, instead of having to walk them through finding the app, creating a
> shortcut and moving it, and possibly renaming it.

Your guess sounds good to me. That's where I went to get a copy of a
shortcut for the Axim file switcher, to put in my STARTUP file.

>
> The Startup folder does exactly the same as the Startup folder does on a
> desktop.

That's the problem, it doesn't do exactly the same thing. IMHO, this is
one of the many ambiguities in PPC 2003, that are ambiguous, primarily,
because they are not explained anywhere. At least, not if you buy a
Dell unit.

The switch on my Dell that applies battery power or external power to my
unit, is called a power switch. But now I have discovered, with much
help here, that it really isn't a power switch. No... that's not really
what I've discovered. What I've discovered is that it is a power
switch, but that when you power up, PPC 2003 doesn't look in the STARTUP
folder. It only looks there when you do a soft reset. Right?


> You just need to understand that turning the unit on is not a
> startup. A soft reset, somewhat equivalent to a re-boot, is. I know there is
> a way to programmatically detect turn on and execute based on that detection
> as there have been third party products that do that. My favorite was the
> one that played the Star Trek communicator sound whenever you turned the PPC
> on....that lasted for about a day on my Jornada.

Regardless of the lack of logic or the ambiquities, the important thing
is to be able to use it within the bounds of how it was designed to be
used. Is there anything, anywhere, that I can beg, borrow, or steal
that I can read to determine how it was designed to be used.

Thank you, and the others, for your help.
>
Anonymous
August 25, 2004 10:19:08 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

normc,

What is it you are trying to look for by using "Find"?

"Find" is a search tool for the database and My Documents folder. The Pocket
PC is designed with the end user in mind... these are the areas where
information are normally stored. Advanced users may find this odd as you
are not able to do certain things by default outside the My Documents
folder.

What are the things you are trying to do with your PPC anyway... I'll keep
this thread in my watch list... could you post the things you would want to
do with your Pocket PC?

--
Carlo Ma. Guerrero
Microsoft MVP, Mobile Devices


"normc" <normc@socal.rr.com> wrote in message
news:KSKWc.32754$rP2.19449@hydra.nntpserver.com...
Carlo Ma. Guerrero [MVP] wrote:
> Hmmm... I don't have that folder in any of my PPCs... what model is that
> again?
>

Microsoft Pocket PC
Version 4.20.1081 (Build 13100)
Processor: Intel PXA263
Running in Dell Ax3i

I don't mean to hurt the feelings of any Microsoft people, but I've been
appalled with the totally illogical design of this OS. Is there some
secret online documentation that fully covers its hidden capabilities?

The least they could have done is covered all the features in HELP.

It is hard for me to understand how, after more than 20 years of
Microsoft operating systems, a FIND command can be so useless. Are
there any 3rd party FIND applications?

Anyone here who has considered going back to a Palm after 'discovering'
PPC 2003?

TIA
August 25, 2004 12:55:55 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

"normc" <normc@socal.rr.com> wrote in message
news:reQWc.35498$rP2.28077@hydra.nntpserver.com...
> Ammon Larson [MSFT] wrote:
>
> >>Do you, or anyone else, know how it DOES work?
> >
> >
> > Placing a file or shortcut to a file in the \windows\startup directory
will
> > cause that file to be executed (as if you clicked on the file) when the
> > device is reset.
> > If it is not executing that file on your device when you perform a soft
> > reset, reply to this newsgroup and we can examine your device further.
>
> Thanks. Could you, perhaps, give me some idea what useful purpose the
> STARTUP folder provides? Certainly no question about purpose of such a
> folder in the Windows desktop systems, including XT.
>

ive used it to start up the dell task switcher whenever i soft reset.
Anonymous
August 25, 2004 12:55:56 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

spammy wrote:

> "normc" <normc@socal.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:reQWc.35498$rP2.28077@hydra.nntpserver.com...
>
>>Ammon Larson [MSFT] wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>Do you, or anyone else, know how it DOES work?
>>>
>>>
>>>Placing a file or shortcut to a file in the \windows\startup directory
>
> will
>
>>>cause that file to be executed (as if you clicked on the file) when the
>>>device is reset.
>>>If it is not executing that file on your device when you perform a soft
>>>reset, reply to this newsgroup and we can examine your device further.
>>
>>Thanks. Could you, perhaps, give me some idea what useful purpose the
>>STARTUP folder provides? Certainly no question about purpose of such a
>>folder in the Windows desktop systems, including XT.
>>
>
>
> ive used it to start up the dell task switcher whenever i soft reset.

Great idea. I hadn't thought about that.... yet. Shouldn't have been
long though. The first thing I do after every soft reset is start the
switcher back up. Thanks! I will do that right now..... Done.

Both the Pocket Excel file and the switcher started when I did a soft reset.
Anonymous
August 25, 2004 1:09:43 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

Pocket PCs are not really switched off... they need to be in suspend mode so
they can wake up on alarms and such...

During this time... the startup folder actually serves no purpose.

The only time is serves its purpose is when the device is reset. Performing
a soft reset means that all applications running are killed and will have to
be run again upon startup.These can be apps such as Task killers/switchers,
backup software, Pocket Outlook, etc.

--
Carlo Ma. Guerrero
Microsoft MVP, Mobile Devices


"normc" <normc@socal.rr.com> wrote in message
news:reQWc.35498$rP2.28077@hydra.nntpserver.com...
Ammon Larson [MSFT] wrote:

>>Do you, or anyone else, know how it DOES work?
>
>
> Placing a file or shortcut to a file in the \windows\startup directory
> will
> cause that file to be executed (as if you clicked on the file) when the
> device is reset.
> If it is not executing that file on your device when you perform a soft
> reset, reply to this newsgroup and we can examine your device further.

Thanks. Could you, perhaps, give me some idea what useful purpose the
STARTUP folder provides? Certainly no question about purpose of such a
folder in the Windows desktop systems, including XT.

>
> Ammon Larson [MSFT]
> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
> rights.
>
> "normc" <normc@socal.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:KcdWc.22083$rP2.13182@hydra.nntpserver.com...
>
>>V Green wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"normc" <normc@socal.rr.com> wrote in message
>>>news:qyZVc.4913$rP2.1426@hydra.nntpserver.com...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Does the Startup folder not work in PPC 2003?
>>>>
>>>>I put a Pocket Excel file (not a shortcut, that didn't work either) in
>>>>it and nothing happens. There is no help for Startup.
>>>>
>>>>TIA
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>No, it doesn't work this way...
>>
>>Do you, or anyone else, know how it DOES work?
>>
>>
>>>But, you can put a shortcut to it in the Programs
>>>list, where it'll be only two taps away...
>>
>>Even better (for me), I put shortcuts to all my pertinent Excel files in
>>the Start Menu.
>>
>>
>>>I have my customer lists, my mileage record,
>>>etc. set up this way and have cut most of the shorcuts
>>>to other programs I rarely use out of the Programs
>>>menu to make it lean 'n mean.
>>
>>Speaking of 'lean and mean', I went through the entire system with File
>>Explorer and found shortcuts lying around in strange places. I had not
>>placed these shortcuts. Didn't even know how to determine file type
>>until I upgraded do Spb Pocket Plus v2.1 a couple weeks ago.
>>
>>Thanks for your inputs.
>>
>>>
>
>
Anonymous
August 25, 2004 1:09:44 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

Third party input panels you want available, task tray icons, RAM Disk
drivers. Same sorts of thing you would put in the desktop Startup. Things
you want run every Time you boot so that they will be available without you
having to specifically find and run them.

--
Sven, MS-MVP Mobile Devices
"Carlo Ma. Guerrero [MVP]" <ppcsurfr@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:eZIhfBkiEHA.4020@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> Pocket PCs are not really switched off... they need to be in suspend mode
so
> they can wake up on alarms and such...
>
> During this time... the startup folder actually serves no purpose.
>
> The only time is serves its purpose is when the device is reset.
Performing
> a soft reset means that all applications running are killed and will have
to
> be run again upon startup.These can be apps such as Task
killers/switchers,
> backup software, Pocket Outlook, etc.
>
> --
> Carlo Ma. Guerrero
> Microsoft MVP, Mobile Devices
>
>
> "normc" <normc@socal.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:reQWc.35498$rP2.28077@hydra.nntpserver.com...
> Ammon Larson [MSFT] wrote:
>
> >>Do you, or anyone else, know how it DOES work?
> >
> >
> > Placing a file or shortcut to a file in the \windows\startup directory
> > will
> > cause that file to be executed (as if you clicked on the file) when the
> > device is reset.
> > If it is not executing that file on your device when you perform a soft
> > reset, reply to this newsgroup and we can examine your device further.
>
> Thanks. Could you, perhaps, give me some idea what useful purpose the
> STARTUP folder provides? Certainly no question about purpose of such a
> folder in the Windows desktop systems, including XT.
>
> >
> > Ammon Larson [MSFT]
> > This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
> > rights.
> >
> > "normc" <normc@socal.rr.com> wrote in message
> > news:KcdWc.22083$rP2.13182@hydra.nntpserver.com...
> >
> >>V Green wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>"normc" <normc@socal.rr.com> wrote in message
> >>>news:qyZVc.4913$rP2.1426@hydra.nntpserver.com...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Does the Startup folder not work in PPC 2003?
> >>>>
> >>>>I put a Pocket Excel file (not a shortcut, that didn't work either) in
> >>>>it and nothing happens. There is no help for Startup.
> >>>>
> >>>>TIA
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>No, it doesn't work this way...
> >>
> >>Do you, or anyone else, know how it DOES work?
> >>
> >>
> >>>But, you can put a shortcut to it in the Programs
> >>>list, where it'll be only two taps away...
> >>
> >>Even better (for me), I put shortcuts to all my pertinent Excel files in
> >>the Start Menu.
> >>
> >>
> >>>I have my customer lists, my mileage record,
> >>>etc. set up this way and have cut most of the shorcuts
> >>>to other programs I rarely use out of the Programs
> >>>menu to make it lean 'n mean.
> >>
> >>Speaking of 'lean and mean', I went through the entire system with File
> >>Explorer and found shortcuts lying around in strange places. I had not
> >>placed these shortcuts. Didn't even know how to determine file type
> >>until I upgraded do Spb Pocket Plus v2.1 a couple weeks ago.
> >>
> >>Thanks for your inputs.
> >>
> >>>
> >
> >
>
>
August 25, 2004 4:55:33 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

"normc" <normc@socal.rr.com> wrote in message
news:loZWc.42147$rP2.34323@hydra.nntpserver.com...
>
> One unique feature is the extra capability you get if you make your
> keyboard 'small'. It's a whole new world. Isn't this the same in all
> PDAs running PPC 2003? Has any manufacturer of PDAs documented this?
> Do they even know about it? Has anyone else here recognized this unique
> feature?
>

i havent. what is it?

Spammy
Anonymous
August 25, 2004 4:55:34 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

Small Keyboard:

Start->Settings->Input->Small Keys

It changes the size of the keys on the SIP so that more keys can be
displayed. Very useful.
--
Bruce Eitman (eMVP)
Senior Engineer
beitman AT applieddata DOT net

Applied Data Systems
www.applieddata.net
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Microsoft WEP Gold-level Member

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Anonymous
August 25, 2004 4:55:34 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

spammy wrote:
> "normc" <normc@socal.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:loZWc.42147$rP2.34323@hydra.nntpserver.com...
>
>>One unique feature is the extra capability you get if you make your
>>keyboard 'small'. It's a whole new world. Isn't this the same in all
>>PDAs running PPC 2003? Has any manufacturer of PDAs documented this?
>>Do they even know about it? Has anyone else here recognized this unique
>>feature?
>>
>
>
> i havent. what is it?
>
> Spammy

The best way to determine for oneself is to try it. Once you have the
knowledge that something is different than you expect..... It is not
simply a matter of larger or smaller keys!!!!
Anonymous
August 25, 2004 4:55:35 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

Bruce Eitman (eMVP) wrote:

> Small Keyboard:
>
> Start->Settings->Input->Small Keys
>
> It changes the size of the keys on the SIP so that more keys can be
> displayed. Very useful.


Indeed! Thank you.
Anonymous
August 25, 2004 10:44:00 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

The built-in Find feature normally wrks pretty well... as long as the files
are within the My Documents folder.

If you need a stronger one that will look through all files... Resco
Explorer is capable of searching them out... but leaves the databases such
as contacts, calendar, email or tasks out.

You can also use Kilmist FileQuest to search for files throuout the
system... Not including databases for contacts, calendar, etc.. though...
(AFAIK)

--
Carlo Ma. Guerrero
Microsoft MVP, Mobile Devices


"normc" <normc@socal.rr.com> wrote in message
news:loZWc.42147$rP2.34323@hydra.nntpserver.com...
Sven, MVP-Mobile Devices wrote:

> Not sure why you think it is illogical,

Don't want to get into a pissing contest about logic. All people are
not created equal when it comes to logic, and I may be on the short
side, even though I've taken logic courses and done logical design.
Sorry I neglected to say 'IMHO' <g>.

> unless you think the windows on the desktop is as well.

Not at all. After writing exec and autoexec files for PC/MSDOS and then
having the pleasure of a startup folder in OS2 and MS Windows, I
suspect that my problem is that I've been using Windows for so long, I
just expected that the STARTUP folder worked like it does on virtually
all the personal computers in the world. That is, unless otherwise
specified. And I haven't been able to find any unique features
described either in HELP or my Dell User's Manual.

IMHO, there are a number of ambiguities in PPC 2003, which could have,
and, IMHO, should have been covered in the documentation. Is not MS
responsible for the online HELP? Perhaps it is only Dell that didn't
provide anything useful in their User's Manual.

One unique feature is the extra capability you get if you make your
keyboard 'small'. It's a whole new world. Isn't this the same in all
PDAs running PPC 2003? Has any manufacturer of PDAs documented this?
Do they even know about it? Has anyone else here recognized this unique
feature?

> It follows that quite closely. You might want to get
> yourself a File Explorer that is more like what you are accustomed to like
> Resco File Explorer. Looking at the tree it appears much like a desktop
> PC.
> The built in file explorer is not really intended to be used much by the
> average consumer I would think. The applications you would use are exposed
> to the user on the start menu or the applications page. Each one typically
> opens to a file dialog that is filtered to documents appropriate to the
> application loaded. You shouldn't need to dig for your files in the file
> explorer.

Thanks, I'll take a look at the Resco File Explorer. I've been using
the latest version of Spb Pocket Plus to explore. Seem to be quite adequate

>
> The Find work a bit differently but I think sensibly on the device. It
> finds
> strings in user data. If for instance you recall where an appointment is
> or
> who it is with, but don't recall the date, Find will get it for you.

Yes, this is clear, and I have used it this way.

> If you
> know the amount, but don't know which Pocket Excel spreadsheet it's in,
> Find
> will get it for you.

Please clarify this example. Are you saying that if I know an amount
(number, dollars, etc.) that I put into a Pocket Excel spreadsheet, but
I can't remember the name I gave the file, that I can find it by using
FIND?????

> If you are looking for oddball.dll, that's not what it
> is for. If that's what you want, again Resco.

So Resco has a browse (explorer) function and a FIND function? To find
a number in a spreadsheet would require the ability to find a word, or
set of words, such as Ransack/FileLocator does on the PC.

>
> As far as the Shortcuts folder, you'd have to ask Dell why they added it,
> it's not on my other PPCs. My guess would be to have a simple place for
> tech
> support to go and recover shortcuts that users deleted out of the Start
> Menu
> folder, instead of having to walk them through finding the app, creating a
> shortcut and moving it, and possibly renaming it.

Your guess sounds good to me. That's where I went to get a copy of a
shortcut for the Axim file switcher, to put in my STARTUP file.

>
> The Startup folder does exactly the same as the Startup folder does on a
> desktop.

That's the problem, it doesn't do exactly the same thing. IMHO, this is
one of the many ambiguities in PPC 2003, that are ambiguous, primarily,
because they are not explained anywhere. At least, not if you buy a
Dell unit.

The switch on my Dell that applies battery power or external power to my
unit, is called a power switch. But now I have discovered, with much
help here, that it really isn't a power switch. No... that's not really
what I've discovered. What I've discovered is that it is a power
switch, but that when you power up, PPC 2003 doesn't look in the STARTUP
folder. It only looks there when you do a soft reset. Right?


> You just need to understand that turning the unit on is not a
> startup. A soft reset, somewhat equivalent to a re-boot, is. I know there
> is
> a way to programmatically detect turn on and execute based on that
> detection
> as there have been third party products that do that. My favorite was the
> one that played the Star Trek communicator sound whenever you turned the
> PPC
> on....that lasted for about a day on my Jornada.

Regardless of the lack of logic or the ambiquities, the important thing
is to be able to use it within the bounds of how it was designed to be
used. Is there anything, anywhere, that I can beg, borrow, or steal
that I can read to determine how it was designed to be used.

Thank you, and the others, for your help.
>
Anonymous
August 26, 2004 1:38:39 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

My comment on logical was more on the subject of the file system. I really
believe the functioning of the PPC OS is very similar to the PC, with a few
idiosyncrasies, driven by the size, and the experience MS wanted to provide.
Automatically minimizing apps instead of closing them was in effort to
provide rapid program switching to the most used programs. Not having a
windowed, but rather a full screen app concept, is really driven by the
physical size. The on/off button really being a suspend/resume button is
based on the hardware needing refresh power to RAM and to give startup
speed. Opening an app to a file dialog rather than an empty app makes sense
if you believe the device will be used to view things more than create them.
I think you'll see that the OS really is much like a desktop if you give
something like Resco a shot. Just try the trial. Yes it does include a
better Find experience. Gives you the option to view file attributes, lets
you 'right click' (tap and hold) a folder and get the parameters, etc. It
also has a registry editor, and zip file support. If you are comfortable in
the Desktop file explorer, and I expect you are, you'll be comfortable in
Resco.

You are right. The Help needs some help, but there is only so much room to
put stuff. You may lean towards less apps and more instructions on how to
use them effectively. Others may lean towards more apps, dang the
instructions, don't use them anyway :) There are some books on Pocket PC, but
they usually lag the OS a bit. If you go to Amazon and search for Pocket PC
you'll find some. The How to Do Everything with your PPC is pretty good and
is probably still pretty useful though I think it is based on PPC2000 and
you are on PPC2003. MS provides part of the help, but the OEMs do
supplement with Help for their specific apps. Users manuals are another
story. They do vary from manufacturer to manufacturer, and year to year.
The best Help you will find is playing, and right here in the forums and the
enthusiast sites.

Yes, the built in Find, I think should find a number in excel, however
testing shows me it doesn't. I plan to bring that up with MS. I think that
is a bug. If you have #59.9 (a text value due to the # in front) in a
spreadsheet, Find will locate it if you look for 59.9. If you have 59.9 as
a number, it won't. I assume it is because it is not stored as 59.9 if it is
a number, versus if it is text. Still wrong. If you look for 227 it will
find every instance of 227 in phone numbers, house numbers, it's existence
in word documents, etc, but it won't find that plain numerical entry in a
spreadsheet. So I lied, but if you can remember you stayed at a Marriot and
you have that in a cell in the spreadsheet, searching for Marriot will
dredge up that spreadsheet, and every appt that has Marriot in the location
and every Marriot you have in Contacts, and e-mails that have Marriot in it.
It's really a 'file contains' search, in your documents.

I think you have come to grips with the Startup folder really doing the same
as the desktop startup folder. The difference is that On/Off isn't the same
as On/Off on the desktop. You can't turn the PPC Off, but you can reboot it,
a soft reset, which then triggers those startup items. It's like hitting the
reset button on you PC. You shouldn't really have to soft reset often, but
don't shy away from it either. It is like a desktop re-boot. Cleans out the
gunk, loads the OS fresh, so to speak, restores the memory that bad apps
have failed to release, etc. It does close apps unkindly, just like the
reset button on your PC, so make sure you don't have a word document open
that you have made changes to when you hit the button, you'll lose the
changes. Closing Word with a task switcher, like Dell's, or SPB Plus closes
it properly so that's not a problem. Incidentally, I noted you were going to
put the task switcher in the startup folder, and you were running Pocket
Plus. Pocket Plus gives you all the capabilities of the Dell Task Switcher
and more. I'd say loading Dell's switcher would just be taking up extra RAM.

Have fun with your PPC, there really is a lot more than can be done with it
than even those that created it envisioned.
--
Sven, MS-MVP Mobile Devices
"normc" <normc@socal.rr.com> wrote in message
news:loZWc.42147$rP2.34323@hydra.nntpserver.com...
> Sven, MVP-Mobile Devices wrote:
>
> > Not sure why you think it is illogical,
>
> Don't want to get into a pissing contest about logic. All people are
> not created equal when it comes to logic, and I may be on the short
> side, even though I've taken logic courses and done logical design.
> Sorry I neglected to say 'IMHO' <g>.
>
> > unless you think the windows on the desktop is as well.
>
> Not at all. After writing exec and autoexec files for PC/MSDOS and then
> having the pleasure of a startup folder in OS2 and MS Windows, I
> suspect that my problem is that I've been using Windows for so long, I
> just expected that the STARTUP folder worked like it does on virtually
> all the personal computers in the world. That is, unless otherwise
> specified. And I haven't been able to find any unique features
> described either in HELP or my Dell User's Manual.
>
> IMHO, there are a number of ambiguities in PPC 2003, which could have,
> and, IMHO, should have been covered in the documentation. Is not MS
> responsible for the online HELP? Perhaps it is only Dell that didn't
> provide anything useful in their User's Manual.
>
> One unique feature is the extra capability you get if you make your
> keyboard 'small'. It's a whole new world. Isn't this the same in all
> PDAs running PPC 2003? Has any manufacturer of PDAs documented this?
> Do they even know about it? Has anyone else here recognized this unique
> feature?
>
> > It follows that quite closely. You might want to get
> > yourself a File Explorer that is more like what you are accustomed to
like
> > Resco File Explorer. Looking at the tree it appears much like a desktop
PC.
> > The built in file explorer is not really intended to be used much by the
> > average consumer I would think. The applications you would use are
exposed
> > to the user on the start menu or the applications page. Each one
typically
> > opens to a file dialog that is filtered to documents appropriate to the
> > application loaded. You shouldn't need to dig for your files in the file
> > explorer.
>
> Thanks, I'll take a look at the Resco File Explorer. I've been using
> the latest version of Spb Pocket Plus to explore. Seem to be quite
adequate
>
> >
> > The Find work a bit differently but I think sensibly on the device. It
finds
> > strings in user data. If for instance you recall where an appointment is
or
> > who it is with, but don't recall the date, Find will get it for you.
>
> Yes, this is clear, and I have used it this way.
>
> > If you
> > know the amount, but don't know which Pocket Excel spreadsheet it's in,
Find
> > will get it for you.
>
> Please clarify this example. Are you saying that if I know an amount
> (number, dollars, etc.) that I put into a Pocket Excel spreadsheet, but
> I can't remember the name I gave the file, that I can find it by using
> FIND?????
>
> > If you are looking for oddball.dll, that's not what it
> > is for. If that's what you want, again Resco.
>
> So Resco has a browse (explorer) function and a FIND function? To find
> a number in a spreadsheet would require the ability to find a word, or
> set of words, such as Ransack/FileLocator does on the PC.
>
> >
> > As far as the Shortcuts folder, you'd have to ask Dell why they added
it,
> > it's not on my other PPCs. My guess would be to have a simple place for
tech
> > support to go and recover shortcuts that users deleted out of the Start
Menu
> > folder, instead of having to walk them through finding the app, creating
a
> > shortcut and moving it, and possibly renaming it.
>
> Your guess sounds good to me. That's where I went to get a copy of a
> shortcut for the Axim file switcher, to put in my STARTUP file.
>
> >
> > The Startup folder does exactly the same as the Startup folder does on a
> > desktop.
>
> That's the problem, it doesn't do exactly the same thing. IMHO, this is
> one of the many ambiguities in PPC 2003, that are ambiguous, primarily,
> because they are not explained anywhere. At least, not if you buy a
> Dell unit.
>
> The switch on my Dell that applies battery power or external power to my
> unit, is called a power switch. But now I have discovered, with much
> help here, that it really isn't a power switch. No... that's not really
> what I've discovered. What I've discovered is that it is a power
> switch, but that when you power up, PPC 2003 doesn't look in the STARTUP
> folder. It only looks there when you do a soft reset. Right?
>
>
> > You just need to understand that turning the unit on is not a
> > startup. A soft reset, somewhat equivalent to a re-boot, is. I know
there is
> > a way to programmatically detect turn on and execute based on that
detection
> > as there have been third party products that do that. My favorite was
the
> > one that played the Star Trek communicator sound whenever you turned the
PPC
> > on....that lasted for about a day on my Jornada.
>
> Regardless of the lack of logic or the ambiquities, the important thing
> is to be able to use it within the bounds of how it was designed to be
> used. Is there anything, anywhere, that I can beg, borrow, or steal
> that I can read to determine how it was designed to be used.
>
> Thank you, and the others, for your help.
> >
>
Anonymous
August 26, 2004 5:17:06 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

I don't see any advantage using Small Keys if I can use Big Keys with
Gestures... I may lose the CAPS lock key but it is easily augmented by the
Gestures feature.

Small keys also lessens the accuracy rate thereby making data entry less
than optimal on a soft input panel.

Using Large Keys with Gestures selected:

Capital letters = tap on letter and slide stylus upwards
Space = tap on any key and slide stylus to the right
Backspace = tap on any key and slide stylus to the left
Enter = tap on any key and slide downwards

This definitely does away with the extra tap on the Shift button or makes
the Space Bar practically useless.
It does away with the Enter key or the Backspace key.

The only thing you really lose is the ability to use multiple key presses
such as doing a Ctrl+Shift which is actually rarely used on a Pocket PC...

Big Keys with Gestures

Possibly equal in usefulness for most users but much better in terms of
Accuracy.

--
Carlo Ma. Guerrero
Microsoft MVP, Mobile Devices


"Bruce Eitman (eMVP)" <beitmannospam@NOSPAM_applieddata.NOSPAM_net> wrote in
message news:uRWUSHsiEHA.3048@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
Small Keyboard:

Start->Settings->Input->Small Keys

It changes the size of the keys on the SIP so that more keys can be
displayed. Very useful.
--
Bruce Eitman (eMVP)
Senior Engineer
beitman AT applieddata DOT net

Applied Data Systems
www.applieddata.net
An ISO 9001:2000 Registered Company
Microsoft WEP Gold-level Member

Do have an opinion on the effectiveness of Microsoft Windows Mobile and
Embedded newsgroups? Let us know!
https://www.windowsembeddedeval.com/community/newsgroup...
Anonymous
August 26, 2004 5:17:07 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

Carlo Ma. Guerrero [MVP] wrote:

> I don't see any advantage using Small Keys if I can use Big Keys with
> Gestures...

More keys, Carlo... more keys!

> I may lose the CAPS lock key but it is easily augmented by the
> Gestures feature.
>
> Small keys also lessens the accuracy rate thereby making data entry less
> than optimal on a soft input panel.

I'm curious to know how old you are and how many wpm you can type on a
normal keyboard.

I'm 70 with diabetes (i.e. sometimes faced with low blood glucose
shakes). I type 65 - 70 wpm. The small keys are not a problem for me.
Nor are the gestures of any advantage.

I can understand how large keys and gestures might be of value to you
and others, but it is a shame that the availability of more keys is not
published or promoted.

>
> Using Large Keys with Gestures selected:
>
> Capital letters = tap on letter and slide stylus upwards
> Space = tap on any key and slide stylus to the right
> Backspace = tap on any key and slide stylus to the left
> Enter = tap on any key and slide downwards

The gestures feature is one of the very few unique features described,
not in HELP, but in the SETTING themselves
>
> This definitely does away with the extra tap on the Shift button or makes
> the Space Bar practically useless.
> It does away with the Enter key or the Backspace key.

I've been touch typing for at least 50 years. This means I know where
all the keys are. Having the number of keys limited and using gestures
just slows me down. I can see that for someone who has never really
learned to type (i.e. hunt and peck), large keys and gestures could be
of value. BUT, it would be best for everyone, if they knew of all the
capabilities of their device. Right?

>
> The only thing you really lose is the ability to use multiple key presses
> such as doing a Ctrl+Shift which is actually rarely used on a Pocket PC...
>
> Big Keys with Gestures
>
> Possibly equal in usefulness for most users but much better in terms of
> Accuracy.
>

The bottom line here is that you failed to even mention that you get
more keys. Darned if I can figure out why.

Thanks again for your inputs. You help to prove my point(s).
Anonymous
August 26, 2004 8:16:28 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

Hi normc,

I think the reason why Small Keys are not really marketed as "more keys =
more features" is simply because it mimics the standard computer keyboard...
Standard, meaning that everyone expects it to be as is... with all the keys
there.

They then offer 2 other options... Which IMHO you should find more
advantageous given your situation.

Large Keys alone is not really a favorite of mine since I need to tap on the
Numbers key to get to the numbers part.

But using Large Keys and Gestures... it is as close as it can get to the
standard keyboard layout where the numbers row appear similar to that of a
full-sized keyboard.

I think this is where More is not necessarily better.

I can touch-type pretty well on a standard keyboard. I'm 35 and I'm near
sighted. Touch-typing does not require a person to look at the keyboard...
but on a Pocket PC, you are working on a smooth, flat, input panel which
does not offer any tactile reference. Visual reference is all we have and
memorizing our hand position when typing may help...

Optimizing this with larger keys and by using gestures should increase
accuracy and you will notice that with this setup certain actions have been
replaced by alternative actions which are not that difficult to learn. You
should in a few minutes be able to adapt to a larger keyboard with Use
Gestures selected. You may have to exit the keyboard and reselect it if the
keyboard does not show up correctly.

Give it a try. I assure you, you will not lose any function really with the
Large Keys, and Use Gestures selected. You will find that certain keys such
as the space bar, the carriage return, the 4 directional arrows, the shift,
and back space buttons are actually not necessary.

Here is what I can recommend though...

Keep using Small Keys for the moment. But try to use it with a different
approach... Gestures is supported in all the keyboard layouts... the only
reason it has a check box is that when you select it, it will not show the
keys that are no longer needed.

So with Small Keys selected, you will notice that you can use Gestures
still... Try to tap on A and without lifting the stylus slide it upwards. To
simulate a Carriage Return, slide your stylus downwards on the keyboard. To
add a space, slide your stylus to the right, and to do a backspace, slide
the stylus on the keyboard towards the left. Gestures are sliding actions
which register pretty well when you slide your stylus about a key's width(or
height).

Use this technique... and in the future, when you are used with Gestures,
you may find that the extra keys you get using the small keyboard are no
longer needed.

I hope you may find time to experiment on this and hopefully you may find
this a bit helpful. ;-)

--
Carlo Ma. Guerrero
Microsoft MVP, Mobile Devices


"normc" <normc@socal.rr.com> wrote in message
news:J65Xc.48527$rP2.38051@hydra.nntpserver.com...
Carlo Ma. Guerrero [MVP] wrote:

> I don't see any advantage using Small Keys if I can use Big Keys with
> Gestures...

More keys, Carlo... more keys!

> I may lose the CAPS lock key but it is easily augmented by the
> Gestures feature.
>
> Small keys also lessens the accuracy rate thereby making data entry less
> than optimal on a soft input panel.

I'm curious to know how old you are and how many wpm you can type on a
normal keyboard.

I'm 70 with diabetes (i.e. sometimes faced with low blood glucose
shakes). I type 65 - 70 wpm. The small keys are not a problem for me.
Nor are the gestures of any advantage.

I can understand how large keys and gestures might be of value to you
and others, but it is a shame that the availability of more keys is not
published or promoted.

>
> Using Large Keys with Gestures selected:
>
> Capital letters = tap on letter and slide stylus upwards
> Space = tap on any key and slide stylus to the right
> Backspace = tap on any key and slide stylus to the left
> Enter = tap on any key and slide downwards

The gestures feature is one of the very few unique features described,
not in HELP, but in the SETTING themselves
>
> This definitely does away with the extra tap on the Shift button or makes
> the Space Bar practically useless.
> It does away with the Enter key or the Backspace key.

I've been touch typing for at least 50 years. This means I know where
all the keys are. Having the number of keys limited and using gestures
just slows me down. I can see that for someone who has never really
learned to type (i.e. hunt and peck), large keys and gestures could be
of value. BUT, it would be best for everyone, if they knew of all the
capabilities of their device. Right?

>
> The only thing you really lose is the ability to use multiple key presses
> such as doing a Ctrl+Shift which is actually rarely used on a Pocket PC...
>
> Big Keys with Gestures
>
> Possibly equal in usefulness for most users but much better in terms of
> Accuracy.
>

The bottom line here is that you failed to even mention that you get
more keys. Darned if I can figure out why.

Thanks again for your inputs. You help to prove my point(s).
Anonymous
August 26, 2004 8:16:29 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

Thanks for taking the time to write this response; however, I don't know
if you get paid for doing so, or not. If you don't, even more thanks.
My attempts to help others is strictly on the use of my own time.

More below.

Carlo Ma. Guerrero [MVP] wrote:

> Hi normc,
>
> I think the reason why Small Keys are not really marketed as "more keys =
> more features" is simply because it mimics the standard computer keyboard...
> Standard, meaning that everyone expects it to be as is... with all the keys
> there.

I do not know why you interpret what I suggest as marketing. It is a
matter of informing..., helping.... Why should it be kept hidden...,
secret?

We could go on with this discussion forever, BECAUSE your logic,
empathy, and experience is far different than mine.

>
> They then offer 2 other options... Which IMHO you should find more
> advantageous given your situation.

No! No! No! How many times do I have to say it? I didn't... and I don't.

>
> Large Keys alone is not really a favorite of mine since I need to tap on the
> Numbers key to get to the numbers part.
>
> But using Large Keys and Gestures... it is as close as it can get to the
> standard keyboard layout where the numbers row appear similar to that of a
> full-sized keyboard.

At the moment, there are, at least, two who don't agree with you. The
person who designed the extra capability and me. I hope others will
chime in with their thoughts. Maybe I'm still missing something.

I absolutely cannot concede that gestures contribute to the soft
keyboard being similar to a regular keyboard. In this case, I can't
even conceive how you can think that.... but once again, we are
different, even more so than I thought.

>
> I think this is where More is not necessarily better.
>
> I can touch-type pretty well on a standard keyboard. I'm 35 and I'm near
> sighted. Touch-typing does not require a person to look at the keyboard...
> but on a Pocket PC, you are working on a smooth, flat, input panel which
> does not offer any tactile reference. Visual reference is all we have and
> memorizing our hand position when typing may help...

Again ,not the case with me! I often look at the standard keyboard in
order to reduce the number of errors.

I never use a spell checker. I know how to spell well. My primary use
of a spell checker is to locate typos or poorly OCR'd documents.

>
> Optimizing this with larger keys and by using gestures should increase
> accuracy and you will notice that with this setup certain actions have been
> replaced by alternative actions which are not that difficult to learn. You
> should in a few minutes be able to adapt to a larger keyboard with Use
> Gestures selected. You may have to exit the keyboard and reselect it if the
> keyboard does not show up correctly.

I can't believe that you are still trying to sell me on your logic and
ideas!

>
> Give it a try. I assure you, you will not lose any function really with the
> Large Keys, and Use Gestures selected. You will find that certain keys such
> as the space bar, the carriage return, the 4 directional arrows, the shift,
> and back space buttons are actually not necessary.

On my device, large keys were the default. As a result, I used large
keys to begin with. I really didn't like what I saw/got. Pretty soon I
started to think about a smaller footprint on the screen and selected
small. Not only was the footprint minimized, but I got the additional
keys and capabilities.

>
> Here is what I can recommend though...
>
> Keep using Small Keys for the moment. But try to use it with a different
> approach... Gestures is supported in all the keyboard layouts... the only
> reason it has a check box is that when you select it, it will not show the
> keys that are no longer needed.
>
> So with Small Keys selected, you will notice that you can use Gestures
> still... Try to tap on A and without lifting the stylus slide it upwards. To
> simulate a Carriage Return, slide your stylus downwards on the keyboard. To
> add a space, slide your stylus to the right, and to do a backspace, slide
> the stylus on the keyboard towards the left. Gestures are sliding actions
> which register pretty well when you slide your stylus about a key's width(or
> height).
>
> Use this technique... and in the future, when you are used with Gestures,
> you may find that the extra keys you get using the small keyboard are no
> longer needed.
>
> I hope you may find time to experiment on this and hopefully you may find
> this a bit helpful. ;-)
>

I'm not sure that I can get this old mind to learn anything new... like
gestures, especially after doing it one way for over 50 years. In
addition, it strikes me that doing it the same way on BOTH keyboards is
more effective and efficient than using all keys on one and some
gestures on another.

Sure would be interested in other's opinions.

Thanka again for your time.
Anonymous
August 26, 2004 11:22:44 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

Hi normc,

No, I am not paid to do this.

I'm just guessing here, but by any chance are you using a Pocket PC Phone
Edition such as the Eten P300 also sold under the brands Yakumo Omikron, or
Everex E500? Because so far this is the only device I've been able to test
which has Large Keys set as default.

>I do not know why you interpret what I suggest as marketing. It is a
>matter of informing..., helping.... Why should it be kept hidden...,
>secret?

Because I found it odd that a standard keyboard requires such attention.
Small Keys is not a secret as it is the default setting for most devices.
All other Pocket PCs have always had Small Keys set as the default keyboard,
which means that all other users will have their first experience using the
keyboard in Small Keys. It seems that your device may be one of the very
few which has Large Keys set as default thereby making your experience a
little more unique. This is also another reason why I actually found your
comment about Small Keys being hidden and a secret a bit unusual. On the
Eten P300/Yakumo Omikron/Everex E500 though, the settings were coded to run
automatically in large keys. This gets annoying since all other Pocket PCs
will retain the keyboard preferences such as Small Keys, Large Keys, Use
Gestures after a soft reset. The Eten P300/Yakumo Omikron/Everex E500 on
the other hand will not and will most definitely default back into Large
Keys and with Use Gestures unticked.

Please do let us know which Pocket PC it is you are using as I am quite
curious as to which other Pocket PC uses Large Keys as the default Keyboard.

My suggestions are just as they are... suggestions. Please do not take them
wrongly as if I'm trying to profess my preference as the correct way of
using the keyboard of a Pocket PC. All I am doing is stating my experience
with the device and how I find it useful. I am sure there will be people who
will choose the same settings as you prefer yourself, and I am also sure
that there will be some who will choose the settings which I have grown so
accustomed to. I am also sure that there will be some users who will choose
a setting which neither you nor I feel comfortable with. I think the beauty
in the Pocket PC is that we can configure it for our own preference.

Mabuhay!
--
Carlo Ma. Guerrero
Microsoft MVP, Mobile Devices


"normc" <normc@socal.rr.com> wrote in message
news:p %7Xc.48956$rP2.23222@hydra.nntpserver.com...
Thanks for taking the time to write this response; however, I don't know
if you get paid for doing so, or not. If you don't, even more thanks.
My attempts to help others is strictly on the use of my own time.

More below.

Carlo Ma. Guerrero [MVP] wrote:

> Hi normc,
>
> I think the reason why Small Keys are not really marketed as "more keys =
> more features" is simply because it mimics the standard computer
> keyboard...
> Standard, meaning that everyone expects it to be as is... with all the
> keys
> there.

I do not know why you interpret what I suggest as marketing. It is a
matter of informing..., helping.... Why should it be kept hidden...,
secret?

We could go on with this discussion forever, BECAUSE your logic,
empathy, and experience is far different than mine.

>
> They then offer 2 other options... Which IMHO you should find more
> advantageous given your situation.

No! No! No! How many times do I have to say it? I didn't... and I don't.

>
> Large Keys alone is not really a favorite of mine since I need to tap on
> the
> Numbers key to get to the numbers part.
>
> But using Large Keys and Gestures... it is as close as it can get to the
> standard keyboard layout where the numbers row appear similar to that of a
> full-sized keyboard.

At the moment, there are, at least, two who don't agree with you. The
person who designed the extra capability and me. I hope others will
chime in with their thoughts. Maybe I'm still missing something.

I absolutely cannot concede that gestures contribute to the soft
keyboard being similar to a regular keyboard. In this case, I can't
even conceive how you can think that.... but once again, we are
different, even more so than I thought.

>
> I think this is where More is not necessarily better.
>
> I can touch-type pretty well on a standard keyboard. I'm 35 and I'm near
> sighted. Touch-typing does not require a person to look at the keyboard...
> but on a Pocket PC, you are working on a smooth, flat, input panel which
> does not offer any tactile reference. Visual reference is all we have and
> memorizing our hand position when typing may help...

Again ,not the case with me! I often look at the standard keyboard in
order to reduce the number of errors.

I never use a spell checker. I know how to spell well. My primary use
of a spell checker is to locate typos or poorly OCR'd documents.

>
> Optimizing this with larger keys and by using gestures should increase
> accuracy and you will notice that with this setup certain actions have
> been
> replaced by alternative actions which are not that difficult to learn.
> You
> should in a few minutes be able to adapt to a larger keyboard with Use
> Gestures selected. You may have to exit the keyboard and reselect it if
> the
> keyboard does not show up correctly.

I can't believe that you are still trying to sell me on your logic and
ideas!

>
> Give it a try. I assure you, you will not lose any function really with
> the
> Large Keys, and Use Gestures selected. You will find that certain keys
> such
> as the space bar, the carriage return, the 4 directional arrows, the
> shift,
> and back space buttons are actually not necessary.

On my device, large keys were the default. As a result, I used large
keys to begin with. I really didn't like what I saw/got. Pretty soon I
started to think about a smaller footprint on the screen and selected
small. Not only was the footprint minimized, but I got the additional
keys and capabilities.

>
> Here is what I can recommend though...
>
> Keep using Small Keys for the moment. But try to use it with a different
> approach... Gestures is supported in all the keyboard layouts... the only
> reason it has a check box is that when you select it, it will not show the
> keys that are no longer needed.
>
> So with Small Keys selected, you will notice that you can use Gestures
> still... Try to tap on A and without lifting the stylus slide it upwards.
> To
> simulate a Carriage Return, slide your stylus downwards on the keyboard.
> To
> add a space, slide your stylus to the right, and to do a backspace, slide
> the stylus on the keyboard towards the left. Gestures are sliding actions
> which register pretty well when you slide your stylus about a key's
> width(or
> height).
>
> Use this technique... and in the future, when you are used with Gestures,
> you may find that the extra keys you get using the small keyboard are no
> longer needed.
>
> I hope you may find time to experiment on this and hopefully you may find
> this a bit helpful. ;-)
>

I'm not sure that I can get this old mind to learn anything new... like
gestures, especially after doing it one way for over 50 years. In
addition, it strikes me that doing it the same way on BOTH keyboards is
more effective and efficient than using all keys on one and some
gestures on another.

Sure would be interested in other's opinions.

Thanka again for your time.
Anonymous
August 29, 2004 2:21:15 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

Sven, MVP-Mobile Devices wrote:
> My comment on logical was more on the subject of the file system. I really
> believe the functioning of the PPC OS is very similar to the PC, with a few
> idiosyncrasies, driven by the size, and the experience MS wanted to provide.
> Automatically minimizing apps instead of closing them was in effort to
> provide rapid program switching to the most used programs. Not having a
> windowed, but rather a full screen app concept, is really driven by the
> physical size. The on/off button really being a suspend/resume button is
> based on the hardware needing refresh power to RAM and to give startup
> speed. Opening an app to a file dialog rather than an empty app makes sense
> if you believe the device will be used to view things more than create them.
> I think you'll see that the OS really is much like a desktop if you give
> something like Resco a shot. Just try the trial. Yes it does include a
> better Find experience. Gives you the option to view file attributes, lets
> you 'right click' (tap and hold) a folder and get the parameters, etc. It
> also has a registry editor, and zip file support. If you are comfortable in
> the Desktop file explorer, and I expect you are, you'll be comfortable in
> Resco.
>
> You are right. The Help needs some help, but there is only so much room to
> put stuff.

IMHO, there's plenty of room. Mine has 64 Mb internal memory. (My
first Apple II had 16K.) As you know, othere devices have even more.
Decent HELP could have been placed in there, with the ability to delete
as desired. In addition, it could have been provided on the CD, along
with ActiveSync and Outlook.

> You may lean towards less apps and more instructions on how to
> use them effectively. Others may lean towards more apps, dang the
> instructions, don't use them anyway :) 

Indeed, I don't start with HELP, but when I can't 'logic' something out,
I usually find it's because of something subtle. For example, to me
'Large Keys/Small Keys' means just that... very straight-forward. If
there is no documentation indicating that you get more keys and a bit
different operation, how would one know? (I'm not really asking you to
answer, just trying to make a point.)

You are probably too young to remember the acronym, RTFD. This was used
on Prodigy and Compuserve BBs, but the D seems to have disappeared into
the profit column <g>.

> There are some books on Pocket PC, but
> they usually lag the OS a bit. If you go to Amazon and search for Pocket PC
> you'll find some. The How to Do Everything with your PPC is pretty good and
> is probably still pretty useful though I think it is based on PPC2000 and
> you are on PPC2003.

Thanks.

> MS provides part of the help, but the OEMs do
> supplement with Help for their specific apps. Users manuals are another
> story. They do vary from manufacturer to manufacturer, and year to year.
> The best Help you will find is playing, and right here in the forums and the
> enthusiast sites.
>
> Yes, the built in Find, I think should find a number in excel, however
> testing shows me it doesn't. I plan to bring that up with MS.
> I think that is a bug.

I'm not aware that any MS WINDOWS OS FIND command has ever had the
capability to find any content in a file..., only the filename. That's
why Ransack/FileLocator is at the top of my list for PC shareware. I'd
be dead without it. It not only finds content, but shows you the phrase
it is in in the document. In addition, you can print the FIND/found list.

> If you have #59.9 (a text value due to the # in front) in a
> spreadsheet, Find will locate it if you look for 59.9. If you have 59.9 as
> a number, it won't. I assume it is because it is not stored as 59.9 if it is
> a number, versus if it is text. Still wrong. If you look for 227 it will
> find every instance of 227 in phone numbers, house numbers, it's existence
> in word documents, etc, but it won't find that plain numerical entry in a
> spreadsheet. So I lied, but if you can remember you stayed at a Marriot and
> you have that in a cell in the spreadsheet, searching for Marriot will
> dredge up that spreadsheet, and every appt that has Marriot in the location
> and every Marriot you have in Contacts, and e-mails that have Marriot in it.
> It's really a 'file contains' search, in your documents.

At the moment, I haven't been able to FIND any content. And I'll
probably never understand why it doesn't search the entire device.
Strikes me that is a pretty simple task to just have it look in more
than one place.

>
> I think you have come to grips with the Startup folder really doing the same
> as the desktop startup folder. The difference is that On/Off isn't the same
> as On/Off on the desktop. You can't turn the PPC Off, but you can reboot it,
> a soft reset, which then triggers those startup items. It's like hitting the
> reset button on you PC. You shouldn't really have to soft reset often, but
> don't shy away from it either. It is like a desktop re-boot. Cleans out the
> gunk, loads the OS fresh, so to speak, restores the memory that bad apps
> have failed to release, etc. It does close apps unkindly, just like the
> reset button on your PC, so make sure you don't have a word document open
> that you have made changes to when you hit the button, you'll lose the
> changes.


> Closing Word with a task switcher, like Dell's, or SPB Plus closes
> it properly so that's not a problem. Incidentally, I noted you were going to
> put the task switcher in the startup folder, and you were running Pocket
> Plus. Pocket Plus gives you all the capabilities of the Dell Task Switcher
> and more. I'd say loading Dell's switcher would just be taking up extra RAM.

Yes, I recognize those features, but I'm not familiar enough with Spb
yet. I realize that Spb allows me to put icons on the TODAY screen, but
there is no provision (that I can find) for naming them. So, my four
Excel files all look the same. So I put them in the START MENU with a name.
>
> Have fun with your PPC, there really is a lot more than can be done with it
> than even those that created it envisioned.

Thanks again for your help.
Anonymous
August 29, 2004 3:55:54 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

--
Sven, MS-MVP Mobile Devices
"normc" <normc@socal.rr.com> wrote in message
news:FJdYc.16646$JG7.5627@hydra.nntpserver.com...

> Indeed, I don't start with HELP, but when I can't 'logic' something out,
> I usually find it's because of something subtle. For example, to me
> 'Large Keys/Small Keys' means just that... very straight-forward. If
> there is no documentation indicating that you get more keys and a bit
> different operation, how would one know? (I'm not really asking you to
> answer, just trying to make a point.)

I understand the point, but small/large seems something that you'd likely
notice the extra keys by just playing, faster than reading a big thick
manual that tries to capture every nuance.

> You are probably too young to remember the acronym, RTFD.
Hah, that was an acronym around even before modems and PCs, which I am old
enough to remember. Got my engineering degree with a slide rule (which came
with a manual BTW)

>This was used on Prodigy and Compuserve BBs, but the D seems to have
disappeared into
> the profit column <g>.
That's likely the real reason. You and I probably know why software boxes
are the size they are. There used to be a book in there ;) 

>
> > Yes, the built in Find, I think should find a number in excel, however
> > testing shows me it doesn't. I plan to bring that up with MS.
> > I think that is a bug.
>
> I'm not aware that any MS WINDOWS OS FIND command has ever had the
> capability to find any content in a file..., only the filename.

OK, then Search, rather than Find. It certainly gives you the option of
searching for text strings within files of any sort.

> At the moment, I haven't been able to FIND any content. And I'll
> probably never understand why it doesn't search the entire device.
> Strikes me that is a pretty simple task to just have it look in more
> than one place.
>
Why would the typical user care if the string "PR" happens to appear in an
executable or a dll? I am more likely to want to find the memo I sent to the
PR dept than be looking for the existance of 'pr' in ad2setup.msi,
firstfox_app.h, or even WMSysPr9.prx, all of which the Windows Search
feature found when I looked for "PR" in C:. Had I narrowed the search to my
documents, I'd have a better chance of finding the document I created and
was looking for quickly. The PPC by default looks at what you created,
which should make the search quicker than if it were to search everything on
the device.

Can't imagine why you can't find anything. Just open Find, put something in
the Find: box, like 'bob' (no quotes), leave Type: as All data and hit Go.
I'd be surprised if you don't have a bob in your address book, but if you
don't, try a name you know is in there. Open a Pocket Word doc and put bob
in a sentence in there and run the search again.

Resco does increase the searching capabilities though, if the built in Find
doesn't do it for you.
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